The Players Poll - voted by players

[DJ Rod]

From Isaac at Hoops.com.au:

In all over 70 athletes responded to the poll, which was open to all NBL players who had at least one year's experience in the iiNet NBL Championship.
Who is the best shooter in the league?
Kirk Penney (New Zealand) 46%
James Harvey (Gold Coast) 17%
Darren Ng (Adelaide) 11%

Who is the best point guard in the league?
Damian Martin (Perth Wildcats) 27%
Adam Gibson (Gold Coast Blaze) 24%
CJ Bruton (New Zealand Breakers) 16%

Who is the best defender in the league?
Damian Martin (Perth Wildcats) 20%
Dillon Boucher (New Zealand Breakers) 16%
Adam Gibson (Gold Coast Blaze) 16%

Who is the best passer in the league?
Kevin Braswell (New Zealand Breakers) 23%
CJ Bruton (New Zealand Breakers) 15%
Dillon Boucher (New Zealand Breakers) 10%
Stephen Hoare (Gold Coast Blaze) 10%

Who is the best rebounder in the league?
Mika Vukona (New Zealand Breakers) 45%
Luke Nevill (Melbourne Tigers) 9%
Jacob Holmes (Adelaide 36ers) 7%
Anthony Petrie (Gold Coast Blaze) 7%

Which team has the deepest bench in the NBL?
Perth 55%
Gold Coast 21%
New Zealand 13%

Who is the best athlete in the league?
Thomas Abercrombie (New Zealand Breakers) 83%
Lucas Walker (Melbourne Tigers) 17%

Who is the best dunker in the league?
Thomas Abercrombie (New Zealand Breakers) 79%
Lucas Walker (Melbourne Tigers) 11%
Pero Vasiljevic (Gold Coast Blaze) 10%

Who is the best hustler in the league?
Brad Robbins (Perth Wildcats) 30%
Dillon Boucher (New Zealand Breakers) 23%
Mika Vukona (New Zealand Breakers) 22%

Who is the toughest player to guard in the paint?
Luke Nevill (Melbourne Tigers) 23%
Matt Knight (Perth Wildcats) 10%
Julian Khazzouh (Sydney Kings) 8%

Who is the toughest player to guard on the perimeter?
Kirk Penney (New Zealand Breakers) 32%
Gary Ervin (Wollongong Hawks) 20%
CJ Bruton (New Zealand Breakers) 12%

Which player is the most intimidating to play against?
Matt Knight (Perth Wildcats) 24%
Shawn Redhage (Perth Wildcats) 18%
Wade Helliwell (Melbourne Tigers) 14%

Which player is the best sportsman (fairest) in the league?
Damian Martin (Perth Wildcats) 15%
Russell Hinder (Townsville Crocodiles) 9%
Mat Campbell (Wollongong Hawks) 6%

Which player talks the most trash of any player in the NBL?
CJ Bruton (New Zealand Breakers) 30%
Cameron Tragardh (Melbourne Tigers) 16%
Russell Hinder (Townsville Crocodiles) 14%

Which current NBL coach (other than your own) would you most like to play for?
Joey Wright (Gold Coast Blaze) 34%
Rob Beveridge (Perth Wildcats) 20%
Gordie McLeod (Wollongong Hawks) 18%

Who is the most versatile player in the NBL (talented in multiple positions)?
Glen Saville (Wollongong Hawks) 27%
Cameron Tragardh (Melbourne Tigers) 16%
Stephen Weigh (Perth Wildcats) 9%

Which current NBL player constantly improves himself the most, year in year out?
Damian Martin (Perth Wildcats) 21%
Anthony Petrie (Gold Coast Blaze) 13%
Thomas Abercrombie (New Zealand Breakers) 13%

Which current NBL player would you pay to see?
Kirk Penney (New Zealand Breakers) 29%
Thomas Abercrombie (New Zealand Breakers) 21%
CJ Bruton (New Zealand Breakers) 12%

Which is the toughest venue to play in (other than your own)?
Perth 66%
Townsville 10%
Cairns 8%

Which is the best venue to play in (other than your own)?
Perth 39%
Townsville 26%
Adelaide 11%

Which team has the most vocal fans in the league (other than your own)?
Perth 71%
Townsville 11%
Wollongong 5%
Sydney 5%

Which team has the most knowledgeable fans in the league (other than your own)?
Adelaide 60%
Townsville 11%
Perth 11%

Who is the best referee in the league?
Michael Aylen 41%
Scott Butler 38%

Which team has the best mascot in the league (other than your own)?
= Joe Blake (Cairns Taipans) 40%
= The Croc (Townsville Crocodiles) 40%
The Lion (Sydney Kings) 4%

[haggard]

Which player is the best sportsman (fairest) in the league?
Russell Hinder (Townsville Crocodiles) 9%

Lol.. Hinder..

also, how can a player suggest the most knowledgeable crowd? do they conduct random spot tests on fans?

[The Glove]

Was it only the New Zealand boys who voted ? :p

[Voice(s)]

Which team has the most knowledgeable fans in the league (other than your own)?

Adelaide 60%
Townsville 11%
Perth 11%

That answer given by the players year in year out used to really piss off a certain poster on here.

[Wild 1]

From Isaac at Hoops.com.au:


Which player is the most intimidating to play against?
Matt Knight (Perth Wildcats) 24%
Shawn Redhage (Perth Wildcats) 18%
Wade Helliwell (Melbourne Tigers) 14%

Which player talks the most trash of any player in the NBL?
CJ Bruton (New Zealand Breakers) 30%
Cameron Tragardh (Melbourne Tigers) 16%
Russell Hinder (Townsville Crocodiles) 14%



I enjoy the player surveys.
Found Redhage to be the 2nd most intimidating opponent interesting, and also didnt see Tragardh as being much of a trash talker.

[Wild 1]

Which team has the most knowledgeable fans in the league (other than your own)?

Adelaide 60%
Townsville 11%
Perth 11%

That answer given by the players year in year out used to really piss off a certain poster on here.

um, which poster?

[Cussy]

Which team has the most knowledgeable fans in the league (other than your own)?

Adelaide 60%
Townsville 11%
Perth 11%

That answer given by the players year in year out used to really piss off a certain poster on here.

It annoys me because no one can say exactly what makes a crowd knowledgable. How does a player know that a crowd is knowledgable? Do they hear specific discussions from the crowd that makes them nod their heads in agreement?

[Voice(s)]

um, which poster?

Think righteous indignation & Sydney.

[Voice(s)]

It annoys me because no one can say exactly what makes a crowd knowledgable. How does a player know that a crowd is knowledgable? Do they hear specific discussions from the crowd that makes them nod their heads in agreement?

Why does it annoy you, who gives a shit?

[Agent 15]

Matty Knight intimidates? wow I would never have picked that... Or Redhage for that matter...

[Cussy]

Why does it annoy you, who gives a shit?

Not annoy me to great levels, I just don't understand how they determine it, and just because Carfino repeats it over and over, it doesn't make it true.

[Voice(s)]

Not annoy me to great levels, I just don't understand how they determine it, and just because Carfino repeats it over and over, it doesn't make it true.

Or that the players think it too year after year.

[The Glove]

Which team has the most knowledgeable fans in the league (other than your own)?

Adelaide 60%
Townsville 11%
Perth 11%

That answer given by the players year in year out used to really piss off a certain poster on here.

Townsville??

So they lose their knowledge between the Swamp and posting on here?

[Cussy]

So why do they think it? Is it even something measurable? Or is it just a question with no answer so they just put Adelaide in?

[Alex_Traitor]

So why do they think it? Is it even something measurable? Or is it just a question with no answer so they just put Adelaide in?

Probaby no answer and Adelaide is first by default.

[Stumps]

It annoys me because no one can say exactly what makes a crowd knowledgable. How does a player know that a crowd is knowledgable? Do they hear specific discussions from the crowd that makes them nod their heads in agreement?
Ironically, the way they supposedly demonstrate their "knowledge" is by applying pressure to the refs by booing every call that goes against the home team, correct or otherwise. Yep, sounds pretty "knowledgeable" to me. I guess Southern Joe is the most knowledgeable poster on here.

It's one of those old urban legends, where Carfino or somebody pulled the observation out of their arse and over time word association has developed, the same way Stephen Hoare was the most "underrated" player in the league until he became overrated as a result of every man and his dog continually calling him underrated. Anybody who points to this question as evidence of anything other than an NBL meme is about as "knowledgeable" as the Adelaide crowd.

[Stumps]

Why does it annoy you, who gives a shit?
Clearly you do, judging by the raging hard-on it gives you.

[Cussy]

Townsville??

So they lose their knowledge between the Swamp and posting on here?

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahha

[Silencer83]

Adelaide??

So they lose their knowledge between the DHD and posting on hoops.com.au?

Adapted for the behaviour seen since Sunday (albeit consistent with every other time I have visited hoops.com.au)

[Cussy]

Glad you mentioned it. That forum is the exact reason why Sixers fans can't be considered knowledgable. Apparently Redhage deserved the injury because he flops or sets hard screens. I might forward that thread to Carfino.

[SB.1]

I recall this myth being perpetuated ever since the Giants-Sixers GF series in 1994, maybe earlier. Maybe it all started with the Paul Maley two that was called a three in Game 1. They were knowledgable because they could see a foot on the line and realise that meant it was only a two.

I laugh every time the Sixers crowd cheer a bucket that has gone in three seconds after a whistle, just like every other crowd in the league.

[fan since the old snakepit]

From Isaac at Hoops.com.au:

Which player is the best sportsman (fairest) in the league?
Damian Martin (Perth Wildcats) 15%
Russell Hinder (Townsville Crocodiles) 9%
Mat Campbell (Wollongong Hawks) 6%



Lol.. Hinder..


This is the only result in the survey that gives a result that is not based on opinion but can be backed up by irrefutable fact. The proof is so rock solid that even Stumps or mattic could not argue against it.
It was not published but I have listed it below.

Percentage of players that were taking the piss while completing the survey. 9%

[fan since the old snakepit]

I enjoy the player surveys.
and also didnt see Tragardh as being much of a trash talker.

He took lessons in the off season so his character fell in line with his new inked look. I would think that if Trigger would trash talk me, my only response after looking at him, would be to laugh.

[Cussy]

Which player has the most active twitter to turnover ratio?
Tyson Demos. 100%

[Alex_Traitor]

If Sav was active (on court) at the moment he'd be at least 2:1.

[Cussy]

Which player is the best at organising a huddle......ah, you know where I'm going with this.

[haggard]

Wonder if Homicide noticed that he wasn't nomintated for any of the "toughest" categories

[Cussy]

I can't believe that out of the 6 mascots the Wildcats have, not one of them got a mention as the best. Surely standing on the spot doing the twist is all people want from mascots?

[Silencer83]

Wonder if Homicide noticed that he wasn't nomintated for any of the "toughest" categories

I was thinking the same thing as he wasn't rated in the top 3 point guards (and neither was Ervin).

Then I noticed that none of the imports featured in the lists.

[Cussy]

Which teams have got the best REAL DJ?
Not Townsville. 100%

[illusiv]

And Perth's DJ is the worst... He is hopeless.

[haggard]

I was thinking the same thing as he wasn't rated in the top 3 point guards (and neither was Ervin).

Then I noticed that none of the imports featured in the lists.

are you suggesting that hoops.com.au are racists?

PS> Ervin is listed. Brasswell too

[Silencer83]

are you suggesting that hoops.com.au are racists?

PS> Ervin is listed. Brasswell too

Missed that on the first few read throughs.

Makes Damo's top PG award that much sweeter that he is more highly respected than Williams and Ervin.

[Cussy]

Which team has the worst scoreboard?
Perth. 00:00%

[DDFan]

Which is the toughest venue to play in (other than your own)?
Perth 66%
Townsville 10%
Cairns 8%

Which is the best venue to play in (other than your own)?
Perth 39%
Townsville 26%
Adelaide 11%

Some say feral, players say best.

Which team has the most vocal fans in the league (other than your own)?
Perth 71%
Townsville 11%
Wollongong 5%
Sydney 5%

*cough*

Which team has the most knowledgeable fans in the league (other than your own)?
Adelaide 60%
Townsville 11%
Perth 11%

As most OzHos would know, I don't sing 36er fans much praise, but why is the most knowledgeable category always challenged? Why is it such a massive margin of victory from the players? Heck, the 36er crowd don't even register in the top 5 for crowd noise. BTW, since when have players been issued with sound level meters? We OzHos demand proof. :wink:

[Alex_Traitor]

At which court are male players most likely to get their kit off and dance around like a complete wang chung?

Challenge Stadium - Perth 73%
The Court Hotel - Perth, also 73%

[SB.1]

Re Homicide, the survey was compiled "earlier" in the season, which is why I assume he features in none of the results.

[PyroCross]

Which team has the deepest bench in the NBL?
Perth 55%
Gold Coast 21%
New Zealand 13%

Oh, it wasn't compiled now but at the start of the season? I'm pretty sure they wouldn't say that now.

And there's lots of Dillon Boucher love. Hail the role player.

[Silencer83]

Which team has the deepest bench in the NBL?
Perth 55%
Gold Coast 21%
New Zealand 13%

Oh, it wasn't compiled now but at the start of the season? I'm pretty sure they wouldn't say that now.

And there's lots of Dillon Boucher love. Hail the role player.

Gold Coast definitely would have slipped a bit with all their injuries and Perth and New Zealand would be much closer to each other.

Lisch/Robbins, Weigh/Tovey, Majok/Wagstaff, Williamson and Trueman compared to Braswell/Henare, Vukona/Abercrombie, Boucher, Pledger and Webster is a pretty even contest.

[Southern Joe]

Not annoy me to great levels, I just don't understand how they determine it, and just because Carfino repeats it over and over, it doesn't make it true.


... It is a hard thing to determine without hard proof ... I reckon its a combo between Carf's continued stating of this ( easy to remember if when doing the survey you can't think of anything else & wanna go with the crowd) & the fact that 6er fans try the hardest to influence the refs into hometown calls ... ergo .... that must make them knowledgeable.

[Southern Joe]

I guess Southern Joe is the most knowledgeable poster on here.




.. Its about time you paid attention..... ;)

[cantremeber]

Which team has the best mascot in the league (other than your own)?
= Joe Blake (Cairns Taipans) 40%
= The Croc (Townsville Crocodiles) 40%
The Lion (Sydney Kings) 4%

So much for polls - only fools would place the thing (whatever its meant to be) in Cairns over the Croc at the Swamp.

No accounting for some.......

[Cussy]

They didn't. They're both 40%.

[DDFan]

No accounting for some.......Tovey retired, remeber? :p

[DDFan]

They didn't. They're both 40%.But a Snake should be lower than a Croc. :p

[DJ Rod]

Lol.. Hinder..

also, how can a player suggest the most knowledgeable crowd? do they conduct random spot tests on fans?

Your hate for Hinder is getting old...

[Cussy]

When he plays like he did on Friday night, it's hard to move on.

[meg]

I can't believe that out of the 6 mascots the Wildcats have, not one of them got a mention as the best. Surely standing on the spot doing the twist is all people want from mascots?

That will teach them to get rid of Pretzo!!

[DJ Rod]

When he plays like he did on Friday night, it's hard to move on.

you've got THE MOST hated player in the league...

BUT the NBL needs guys like that, et al Kruger, Heal, Kerle etc

[haggard]

you've got THE MOST hated player in the league...

BUT the NBL needs guys like that, et al Kruger, Heal, Kerle etc

player envy.... its a biarch!

[Cussy]

you've got THE MOST hated player in the league...


So? Hinder is still a dirty bitch, but he doesn't have the skills to back it up.

[haggard]

Your hate for Hinder is getting old...

whether I like Hinder as a player is beside the point. the fact that he came in under the fairest player category is the joke.

[mattic]

whether I like Hinder as a player is beside the point. the fact that he came in under the fairest player category is the joke.
Yes, it is. And while the explanation which springs to mind is a players' piss-take conspiracy, I feel that that would be a little hard to organise.

So, what other explanation might there be? Well, nothing to account for the traditional meaning of "fairest", but that was only the qualifier to "sportsman". Now, while I agree that the traditional meaning of sportsman falls well short of the mark, too, I just can't see the conspiracy theory being viable.

It's possible that, as annoying as Hinder may be on court, it is balanced by two things.

Firstly, his acceptance of give and take. He can dish it out, but he also takes it without (too much) complaint, as far as I can see.

Secondly, his attitude off the court/after the game/during the breaks in play is almost universally genial and cordial. I often see him having a laugh and a joke with the opposition during breaks in play and have always observed genuine friendliness from opposition players after games. I have never seen anybody wanting to "get at him" after a game or even refusing to shake hands.

I haven't had the opportunity to observe him in post-match functions, but I suspect that his relationships there do him some credit with other players.

I don't think all this is quite enough for him to win second prize in a "best sportsman (fairest)" vote, but it was only 9% and not inconceivable that he got those votes for his "sporting attitude" i.e., the give and take.

If so, the players need to read the question again! ;-)

[DDFan]

This won't come back to bite anyone, so just take it as read.
I agree with mattic, players can be seen by oppo fans as headcases, but it's the players that are the ones who can realistically judge what a palyer's all about. They've all played in hostile environments/situations & know what it's like to be on the receiving end.
If the poll's not a pisttake, then they accept that what happened on the floor, gets left on the floor.
Players know it's competitive & some take it further than others. But, if there's a genuine handshake at the end of the game, players generally accept it & move on.
So who are we to judge?

[Cussy]

Some players don't leave it on the court, and tweet like little bitches after the match.

[DDFan]

Some players don't leave it on the court, and tweet like little bitches after the match.:oops:

My bad.

[Dunkin' Dan]

Yes, it is. And while the explanation which springs to mind is a players' piss-take conspiracy, I feel that that would be a little hard to organise.

It's got piss-take written all over it IMO. 9% is less than 1 team worth of players.
Good on the players for getting behind their leader though. I've got no problem with that.

[mattic]

Some players don't leave it on the court, and tweet like little bitches after the match.
Who's that?

[The Glove]

It's got piss-take written all over it IMO. 9% is less than 1 team worth of players.
Good on the players for getting behind their leader though. I've got no problem with that.

70 odd players responded. All it takes is 7 players or one team to be in on this as a piss take. Im with Dan, not too hard to organise at all.

[mattic]

Not hard to organise your own team, but hard to organise 63 others to skew their vote in order to get your specifically desired result.

[The Glove]

Considering IMO he wouldnt get votes from other people anyway, I think one team voting on a piss take could happen.

[Dunkin' Dan]

Not hard to organise your own team, but hard to organise 63 others to skew their vote in order for that result.
I don't understand what that means / how it pertains to this discussion.

[Cussy]

Who's that?

Homicide, Demos, Sav. Off the top of my head.

[mattic]

I don't understand what that means / how it pertains to this discussion.
I understand that 9% = a certain number of players and that will remain constant. But the distribution of the other players' votes needs to be such that your boy makes the top 3, otherwise your joke never gets cracked.

So maybe a pisstake, but fortunate to get cracked, which mars the credibility of the conspiracy theory, I think.

[Cussy]

Were the players allowed to vote for their team mates in any category?

[Dunkin' Dan]

I understand that 9% = a certain number of players and that will remain constant. But the distribution of the other players' votes needs to be such that your boy makes the top 3, otherwise your joke never gets cracked.

So maybe a pisstake, but fortunate to get cracked, which marrs the credibility of the conspiracy, I think.

Interesting interpretation of the results. You say it marrs the theory, whereas to me the scattered nature of the rest of the votes further reinforces it.

[haggard]

Not hard to organise your own team, but hard to organise 63 others to skew their vote in order to get your specifically desired result.

excuse me if my maths is incorrect, but wouldn't the votes from one team equate to around 9% - 11% of all votes?

[mattic]

Interesting interpretation of the results. You say it marrs the theory, whereas to me the scattered nature of the rest of the votes further reinforces it.
You'll have to explain that one.

[Dunkin' Dan]

You'll have to explain that one.
If there is a group of players involved in a vote that apparently has no obvious winner, and somehow one of the least likely people in the league to get votes polls the 2nd highest, I'm saying that adds to the likelihood of the result being suspect.
You'll have to explain to me how the scattered nature of the rest of the vote makes it less likely that Hinder's surprise appearance, coincidentally with around 1 team worth of votes, is suspect.

[The Glove]

If there is a group of players involved in a vote that apparently has no obvious winner, and somehow one of the least likely people in the league to get votes polls the 2nd highest, I'm saying that adds to the likelihood of the result being suspect.
You'll have to explain to me how the scattered nature of the rest of the vote makes it less likely that Hinder's surprise appearance, coincidentally with around 1 team worth of votes, is suspect.

But the result is not suspect if your a one eyed Crocs fan :twisted:

[Dunkin' Dan]

But the result is not suspect if your a one eyed Crocs fan :twisted:
But ... but ... Hinder dishes it out but he never sooks about copping it in return

[cantremeber]

Which team has the best mascot in the league (other than your own)?
= Joe Blake (Cairns Taipans) 40%
= The Croc (Townsville Crocodiles) 40%
The Lion (Sydney Kings) 4%

So much for polls - only fools would place the thing (whatever its meant to be) in Cairns over the Croc at the Swamp.

No accounting for some.......

They didn't. They're both 40%.

My read of that is that 40% did think exactly that - how do you see it as different from my original post?

[The Glove]

But ... but ... Hinder dishes it out but he never sooks about copping it in return

I wouldnt know as I dont have a team to support anyomore so obviously my points regarding the NBL are irrelevant .

[Cussy]

I know what you mean, but as they are both run away winners on 40%, consider both of them standouts, yet neither of them to be better than the other.

[mattic]

You'll have to explain to me how the scattered nature of the rest of the vote makes it less likely that Hinder's surprise appearance, coincidentally with around 1 team worth of votes, is suspect.
I was hoping you were going to explain your point. But as you seem unable/unwilling to do so, I had a further think about it.

I see, now, how a concerted conspiracy block of votes can artificially elevate one player if there is a random scattering of other votes. It wasn't hard to explain, I wonder why you wouldn't. It still seems a bit far-fetched, though. The conspiracy, that is, not the maths.
If there is a group of players involved in a vote that apparently has no obvious winner, and somehow one of the least likely people in the league to get votes polls the 2nd highest, I'm saying that adds to the likelihood of the result being suspect.
So, what you're saying is, if one doesn't like the result in any category, one may easily, and credibly dismiss it as a pisstake organised by the players. I see. The only credibility needed, being one's own entirely subjective opinion as to who should and shouldn't be in the list.

Seems a bit pointless, then.

[mattic]

But ... but ... Hinder dishes it out but he never sooks about copping it in return
Are you suggesting that that is what I said?

[mattic]

But the result is not suspect if your a one eyed Crocs fan :twisted:
The result is surprising. But rather than subscribe to the all-too-convenient conspiracy theory, which I think is beyond juvenile, I tried to think of an explanation which doesn't involve questioning the integrity of the players. My theory is not perfect by any means and it's only my opinion, but it certainly isn't one-eyed.

[Cussy]

I heard mattic rigged the awards because Stumps quotes too much.

[Dunkin' Dan]

I was hoping you were going to explain your point. But as you seem unable/unwilling to do so, I had a further think about it.
Huh? You asked for an explanation, and so an explanation was the next thing I posted. You even appeared to understand it.

Where is your explanation of how the distribution of votes marrs the conspiracy theory? I'm still waiting for that.

So, what you're saying is, if one doesn't like the result in any category, one may easily, and credibly dismiss it as a pisstake organised by the players. I see. The only credibility needed, being one's own entirely subjective opinion as to who should and shouldn't be in the list.
Your continual use of the word "one" is the very undoing of your point. I am indeed one who thinks that Hinder carries on like a pork chop, but one of many. The many part is a crucial element in the basis the theory.
Were I alone in my view, I would not have entertained such a theory.
(A theory I am not 100% convinced of, btw, but I think it has some legitimate legs)

[Dunkin' Dan]

But ... but ... Hinder dishes it out but he never sooks about copping it in return
Are you suggesting that that is what I said?
Not at all. You said something different.

[Dunkin' Dan]

The result is surprising. But rather than subscribe to the all-too-convenient conspiracy theory, which I think is beyond juvenile
And basketballers can't be juvenile?

"Hey, let's all put Russ in for the sportsmanlike one"
"LOL, yeah good one"
This is beyond the realms of possibility? Come on...

[mattic]

Huh? You asked for an explanation, and so an explanation was the next thing I posted.
Yes, you did, sorry.
You even appeared to understand it.
Hehe, no, I didn't, which is why I had to think some more...
Where is your explanation of how the distribution of votes marrs the conspiracy theory? I'm still waiting for that.
..in order to understand it and dismiss the above thought.
Your continual
Continual? What, you mean maintaining the tense and tone of the sentence so as to make things constant and clear? Oh, dear.
use of the word "one" is the very undoing of your point.
Then you don't really understand that it is the only word one ought to be using in such a sentence. If you like, you may substitute a more common (as muck) "you", but then one would be open to claims of putting words in one's interlocutor's mouth. If the simple correct use of words throws you, I don't think your heart's really in this ;-)
I am indeed one who thinks that Hinder carries on like a pork chop, but one of many. The many part is a crucial element in the basis the theory.
I'm sure it is. How many? When and in what arena did you conduct this research?
Were I alone in my view, I would not have entertained such a theory.
(A theory I am not 100% convinced of, btw, but I think it has some legitimate legs)
Then we agree. I just thought that your intial,
It's got piss-take written all over it IMO.
..was a little stronger than what you just said.

All good.

[mattic]

Not at all. You said something different.
So what was the provenance of that statement?
Or, let me put it another way. Are you suggesting that that is what I meant?

I'm sure you think you are being frightfully clever, but, I assure you, only Glove thinks so ;-)

[mattic]

And basketballers can't be juvenile?

"Hey, let's all put Russ in for the sportsmanlike one"
"LOL, yeah good one"
This is beyond the realms of possibility? Come on...
Come on? You sound like you are arguing against a statement that basketballers cannot be juvenile, when I have said no such thing. I simply said I would consider it beyond juvenile, not that it hadn't happened. You really are trying too hard

[DDFan]

It's got piss-take written all over it IMO. 9% is less than 1 team worth of players.70 odd players responded. All it takes is 7 players or one team to be in on this as a piss take. Im with Dan, not too hard to organise at all.These 2 posts seem plausible to me, well enough to have me seeing the piss-take idea.
What I don't understand, is how mattic insists that it'd be a stretch. Why couldn't some team-mates band together for a crack up?
And what's the harm anyway?
Me thinks mattic's "All things Croc" defence mechanism's kicked in.

[Dunkin' Dan]

So what was the provenance of that statement?
Or, let me put it another way. Are you suggesting that that is what I meant?
No.

Come on? You sound like you are arguing against a statement that basketballers cannot be juvenile, when I have said no such thing. I simply said I would consider it beyond juvenile, not that it hadn't happened. You really are trying too hard
The only thing I'm trying hard to do here is understand you.

You still haven't explained to me why my theory is marred by the results of the poll.

Secondly, after dissing my "teammates having a laugh" theory for your secret reasons and later calling it far-fetched, you've now posted that you're not saying that it hadn't happened.
Could you perhaps be a little more wishy-washy and evasive about your opinion of all this? This discussion just isn't quite enough of a chore for my taste.

[DDFan]

Mmmmmmm, let's see, the provenance word's already been used, are we about due for a vapid any time soon? ;)

[Dunkin' Dan]

Probably. It's a fair description of what this thread has become.

[mattic]

No.
Ok, then what was the provenance of that statement? It's you who is being evasive, especially when you've been a bitch, are wrong and are being called on it.
You still haven't explained to me why my theory is marred by the results of the poll.
I've already addressed this. Read back. Follow the ellipses. I withdrew that statement. You had a win! I'd've thought, so desperate for one as you have been for so many years now, that you would have spotted it. Aw, wassaamadder, poor baby? Did it not come with the glow of satisfaction that you thought it would? Did it not follow the massive battle and final, humiliating capitulation of mattic that you had so long hoped and dreamed about? Poor love, you must be distraught. But that's the way it goes. If I change my mind based on sound reasoning, it's easy.

Secondly, after dissing my "teammates having a laugh" theory for your secret reasons
Secret reasons? Do you even know what you're talking about at this point? What, precisely are you trying to say?
and later calling it far-fetched, you've now posted that you're not saying that it hadn't happened.
No, how could I say either way? I was not party to every vote and every team meeting that may or may not have taken place. Are you saying that you were?
Could you perhaps be a little more wishy-washy and evasive about your opinion of all this?
I have talked through my thoughts but have no firm stance because I have no firm facts; and neither do you.
This discussion just isn't quite enough of a chore for my taste.
You make it so when you get snippy and carry on like a petulant child.

[DDFan]

Dang, I shoulda seen petulant coming. :oops:

[Dunkin' Dan]

Ok, then what was the provenance of that statement? It's you who is being evasive, especially when you've been a bitch, are wrong and are being called on it.
Huh? My statement was sarcastic. It was my roundabout way of saying that I think Hinder loves instigating shit but is the first one to sook when he gets some back, which IMO is not a quality that goes hand-in-hand with sportsmanship.

I've already addressed this. Read back. Follow the ellipses. I withdrew that statement. You had a win! I'd've thought, so desperate for one as you have been for so many years now, that you would have spotted it. Aw, wassaamadder, poor baby? Did it not come with the glow of satisfaction that you thought it would? Did it not follow the massive battle and final, humiliating capitulation of mattic that you had so long hoped and dreamed about? Poor love, you must be distraught. But that's the way it goes.
*shrugs* I just wanted to know why you posted that. I assumed that there was some thought process behind it and wanted to know what it was.
Instead it looks like I got a meltdown.
I have never understood why you see every conversation as resulting in a "win" for someone (and therefore a loss for someone else).

Oh, and of course I have no firm facts! Bloody hell ... I thought the fact that I was merely speculating from the start would be obvious.

[mattic]

Huh? My statement was sarcastic.
Indeed. That's my point. That's pretty-much all you've got on here.
It was my roundabout way of saying that I think Hinder loves instigating shit but is the first one to sook when he gets some back, which IMO is not a quality that goes hand-in-hand with sportsmanship.
Yes; and you did it by taking the piss and attempting to belittle what I had said, when what I actually said was clearly just my opinion expressed with, and carrying, no more weight than you have just expressed yours.
Oh, and of course I have no firm facts! Bloody hell ... I thought the fact that I was merely speculating from the start would be obvious.
It was obvious. Though you decided not to pay me the same courtesy and started demanding facts. You obviously missed my retraction. Twice. Perhaps if you read with intent to understand, rather than with intent to smart-mouth, you'd go better.

[Dunkin' Dan]

It was obvious. Though you decided not to pay me the same courtesy and started demanding facts.
Show me where I demanded any facts.

You're the one posting the "How many? When and in what arena did you conduct this research?" crap, not me.

[mattic]

Show me where I demanded any facts.

You're the one posting the "How many? When and in what arena did you conduct this research?" crap, not me.
Not facts, sorry. Explanations. After I'd already retracted.

[Dunkin' Dan]

I asked for an explanation because I wanted to know what you were thinking.
Your "acceptance" of my opinion was kind of hard to take seriously when at the same time you call it far-fetched and then in the next paragraph you basically implied that it had no credibility.
So forgive me for not realising that amongst those back-handers about what I had said, you had actually dropped your original thought.

If mine is all crap and yours is history then I can only assume you have come up with a 3rd theory that makes sense, and I insist that you tell me what it is ;)

[mattic]

Your "acceptance" of my opinion was kind of hard to take seriously when at the same time you call it far-fetched and then in the next paragraph you basically implied that it had no credibility.
Hehehe! Quite the reverse. I was accepting that you thought your argument credible and that you must, therefore, accept every result as credibly questioned if one decides to question it along your own lines, i.e., that of a personal subjective opinion. e.g., "I don't think that Hinder is the 2nd most sporting (fairest) player in the NBL, therefore the result must have been rigged."

I said
So, what you're saying is, if one doesn't like the result in any category, one may easily, and credibly dismiss it as a pisstake organised by the players. I see. The only credibility needed, being one's own entirely subjective opinion as to who should and shouldn't be in the list.

Seems a bit pointless, then.
...and it does!

[cantremeber]

How about someone say "Have the last word" as this is lapsing into yet another interminable, circular one-upmanship-fest. (New word)

[Cussy]

As soon as the argument turns to "you're so desperate for a win" then everybody is a loser for having read it.

[DDFan]

How about someone say "Have the last word" as this is lapsing into yet another interminable, circular one-upmanship-fest. (New word)Don't spoil the party, I'm still hanging out for tu quoque & hoPefully an ad hominen. ;)

Post times show as ACST on my 'puter, so I can cut Dunkin' Dan some slack for his last post at 03:01am, but mattic's reply at 03:30am? :shock:
Someone's got some serious issues.

[Stumps]

Well, there's your ad hominem, in typical obsessive fashion.

[DDFan]

Well, there's your ad hominem, in typical obsessive fashion.Hahahaha!!1!

I'm starting to see the fun that joycefan has, that one was way too easy. :razz:

[Stumps]

I'm starting to see that isaac was right.

[Cussy]

http://www.goldcoast.com.au/article/2011/01/26/286705_gold-coast-blaze.html

Ah, good ol' Nick "Not-so" Smart from the GC BUlletin. Never let the facts get in the way of a good story, huh?

ACROSS the league it is known as "The Joey Factor" and yesterday it became official.

The annual NBL players' poll has been released and it clearly shows that Joey Wright is viewed as the best and most respected coach in the competition.

The Gold Coast Blaze mentor topped the list when the players were asked which current NBL coach (other than their own) would they most like to play for. Wright won the vote at 34 per cent ahead of Perth coach Rob Beveridge (20 per cent) and Wollongong's Gordie McLeod (18 per cent).

Best and most respected? No. Coach which will allow players to do what they want and not push them to be their best? Yes. The article, which talks about some Joey factor, makes no mention of their talented roster having a piss poor record. Factor this!

[DDFan]

I'm starting to see that isaac was right.I've gotta say, I've had a silly grin on my silly face ever since your #100 post in this thread.
Mattic happens to share the use of tu quoque & ad hominem with you, & he was the intended target for the harmless thesaurus shuffle game that I was playing. He doesn't mind, & why would he, I'm on his "Ignore List".
Then you cropped uP with your "obsessive" tag. Kinda funny, when my "posting during working hours" jibe didn't fit the 03:30 AM time slot. ;)
Anyways, if you & mattic are so hot on this thread topic, take it to hoops.com.au & debunk the "most knowledgeable fan" call that obsessively pisses you off.
If you think I'm abrasive, you've had it too good, for too long.
Good luck.

[Stumps]

What business is it of yours WHEN somebody else posts? How does it affect the merit of what they are saying? Your continual and predictable references to it (only with respect to the pet targets of your vitriol, of course) are polluting the forum.

I have no interest in going to hoops.com.au, for the following reasons:

1. In all seriousness, I don't actually think isaac is right about much at all.
2. The "most knowledgeable fans" call doesn't "piss me off" in the slightest; I see it for what it is, a Carfino meme, and I think it's quite cute that so many South Australians have taken such pride in it.

[DDFan]

What business is it of yours WHEN somebody else posts? How does it affect the merit of what they are saying?If someone's a shiftworker, I can see that posting at 03:30 AM may be part of his alternate working hours lifestyle. I had an inkling that mattic's a shiftworker, have you? Bearing in mind that yesterday was a public holiday, I'd be prepping myself for the next working day, provided I wasn't on holidays. Perhaps you can ask him, I can't.
I've never said that a poster's argument has less merit at any point in the day, where did you come to that conclusion?
Your continual and predictable references to it (only with respect to the pet targets of your vitriol, of course) are polluting the forum.I'm polluting this forum, hey?
Could you do a post count of my continual (obsession) on that matter, & count the number of pet targets, please? Hell, get back to me on your Blackberry at the airport, I'd like to know.
I have no interest in going to hoops.com.au, for the following reasons:
1. In all seriousness, I don't actually think isaac is right about much at all.Funny as.
I don't ever recall hearing/seeing you shoot curious down on that one (some friend you are).
Not a problem for me though, 'cos at my age, hearing & sight impairment goes with the territory, plus I'm a lunatic. Right?
2. The "most knowledgeable fans" call doesn't "piss me off" in the slightest;Reeeeeeally.
I see it for what it is, a Carfino meme, and I think it's quite cute that so many South Australians have taken such pride in it.Yep, so many South Australians.
You do realise that voice(s), likes firing you uP, don't you?
But even if you're not that smart, I count that as 1 South Australian (on OzHoops).
By all means, correct me if I'm wrong.

late edit: FWIW Stumps, I didn't get a "Friend Request" acceptance from voice(s), can you explain that?
It's all but irrelevant anyway, because there's now only a "Contacts" header in teh Derek's new software format. You really need to keep uP, if you're out to obsessively trying to embarrass me.

late late edit: Stumps mate, you may have missed it, but I used to seriously dump on the Glove & Southern Joe, but they both accepted my "Friendship Requests". Where does that place you, in my OzHo friends list, do you think? You are pathetic, my friend.

[Stumps]

Wow, you sure showed me why I shouldn't call you obsessive.

[The Glove]

late late edit: Stumps mate, you may have missed it, but I used to seriously dump on the Glove & Southern Joe, but they both accepted my "Friendship Requests". Where does that place you, in my OzHo friends list, do you think? You are pathetic, my friend.

I accepted it out of spite .... ;)

[DDFan]

Wow, you sure showed me why I shouldn't call you obsessive.Quotefests aren't cool any more? :p

[DDFan]

I accepted it out of spite .... ;)Yeh, but you don't have a team any more. So nyeeeer!!! ;)

[The Glove]

Yeh, but you don't have a team any more. So nyeeeer!!! ;)

well there aint no way that the Cannons crowd can be still considered knowledgeable then now can they .... ;)

[Silencer83]

Is this poll done every year?

I haven't been able to google up any previous year's results.

[Voice(s)]

Is this poll done every year?

I haven't been able to google up any previous year's results.

The google is your friend.

Adelaide's fans again were voted the NBL's "most knowledgeable" with 35 per cent of the vote, Perth's ferals next on 19 per cent.

But their record for being the league's most vocal supporters? Or for inhabiting the toughest venue in which to play? Or for even being in the best venue to play? All lost, just a memory.

Townsville, Perth, Cairns - in that order - have the toughest venues, flip Cairns and Perth behind the Crocs for boasting the most vocal fans and Townsville's notorious Swamp now is considered the best venue.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/basketball/smyth-retains-no1/story-e6frect3-1111114512934

[Voice(s)]

Which team has the most knowledgeable fans in the league (other than your own)?

Adelaide (39%), Melbourne (15%), Townsville (13%)

http://sportsaustralia.com/articles/sep06/artid6482.html

[Silencer83]

Cheers, I was only looking using last year to be honest. ;)

So is it yearly or just every so often?

[Voice(s)]

Cheers, I was only looking using last year to be honest. ;)

So is it yearly or just every so often?

I'm pretty sure it's an annual thing.

[Cussy]

Great, the Sixers fans are perennially voted the league's most knowledgable. Pity none of them can explain what it means.

[DDFan]

Great, the Sixers fans are perennially voted the league's most knowledgable. Pity none of them can explain what it means.We've never been able to get a word in, so we just let the haters vent.

Besides, it's therapeutic. ;)

[Wallitron]

Pity none of them can explain what it means.

Regardless of the poll history, what it should mean is how well a crowd reactes to in game events. If it's a massive dunk of the year type highlight, the crowd should go ape shit. If it's a terrible no-call, or 50-50 charge/block call, they should go ape shit. If the team is in a massive hole, down by 30, the crowd should start leaving at 3/4 time.

Essentially this is a combination of "we've been in the league a long time" and "we don't have very many professional sporting teams around here" award. That seems to fit Adelaide I guess?

[Southern Joe]

I accepted it out of spite .... ;)


... I was gonna go with fear ... but hey .... I don't have anything to follow it up with other than making DDFan looking like an obsessive, drug addled loony who'll hunt me down & "tranqualise"me ..... :shock:

[DDFan]

... I was gonna go with fear ... but hey .... I don't have anything to follow it up with other than making DDFan looking like an obsessive, drug addled loony who'll hunt me down & "tranqualise"me ..... :shock:Love it. :D :grin: :grin:

[Southern Joe]

... Also ...
with the piss take theory ... it wouldn't be that hard to put together.

Think about it ..... 70 players .... out of them ... how many would have played both on the same team & as oppo players??

Think about someone like Hinder ,.... he is now with his 4th club .... each for multiple seasons ( except a short stint with Hunter). Think how many of his ex teammates who would still be in contact with each other could message each other quite easily thru sms or FB?


Both the stretch theory & the pisstake theory have equal amounts of water .... mebbe it may come out in an autobiography or a sit down interview.

[Dunkin' Dan]

Nah, far too much is at stake for someone to reveal something this important.

Mebbe on Wikileaks though.

[DDFan]

Both the stretch theory & the pisstake theory have equal amounts of water ....Indeed.
mebbe it may come out in an autobiography or a sit down interview.:D

[DDFan]

Nah, far too much is at stake for someone to reveal something this important.

Mebbe on Wikileaks though.Are you tak'n the piss? :twisted:

[The Glove]

Think about someone like Hinder ,.... he is now with his 4th club .... each for multiple seasons ( except a short stint with Hunter). Think how many of his ex teammates who would still be in contact with each other could message each other quite easily thru sms or FB?


Jesus, Ben Knight would be in trouble then wouldn't he !

[Southern Joe]

.. True.

But I think with Hinder you have a stronger personality ... someone who polarises opinions about him ... therefore is a better ironic target IMO.

[The Glove]

.. True.

But I think with Hinder you have a stronger personality ... someone who polarises opinions about him ... therefore is a better ironic target IMO.

and he is also a douche ;)

[Cussy]

Any time you get an analysis from Joe about how something coulda been done, you know the conversation has finished.

[Ricnat]

Great, the Sixers fans are perennially voted the league's most knowledgable. Pity none of them can explain what it means.

Where in hell does this reputation come from? Sure they may know their stuff, but who's to say it's any better or worse than any other city. The only reason people think this is because Steve Carfino keeps going on about it.
Just cause it's on TV doesn't make it true.

One things for sure - the crowd may be knowledgable, but the Adelaide refs don't know sh1t.

[DDFan]

Where in hell does this reputation come from?I have a confession to make, I think I may be the guilty party that kicked this horrendous media beat uP. Carfs' a gentleman, so he's never dobbed on me, but I knew that he desperately wanted to close out his career as a 36er (we had money then), so I threw it out there. Memory blur, but it may've gone like:
"Carfs me ol' mate, it's not gonna hapPen (& I was right, once again), but if you do what I'm tell'n you to do bro, you'll have a career stitched uP in the media & be quoted on the internet for an eternity.
Fact is, I'm a smooth talk'n bastard & history, is history.
Sure they may know their stuff, but who's to say it's any better or worse than any other city?It's been confirmed in every poll, Carf has never retracted his call (so there should be no doubting), Oprah endorsed it, but it never got air time, & George Negus will look into it, if you'll fund his lasik surgery & lid lifts.
The only reason people think this is because Steve Carfino keeps going on about it.You hate on Carfs cause he played for the Sydney Kings, I can see it a mile off.
Just cause it's on TV doesn't make it true.I ask you, what can you put on TVs now, when retail stores only stock those ridiculously $lim designer LCD & plasma finga me bobs?
One thing's for sure - the Adelaide crowd was definitely knowledgeable while DDFan was a season ticket-holder, but now they're just random noisemakers (but not as loud as Sydney fans at the SEC).fixed
the Adelaide refs don't know sh1t.Define sh1t. ;)

[Cussy]

The award is "most knowledgable", not "most illegible".

[DDFan]

The award is "most knowledgable", not "most illegible".Could you be more spasific?

Or are quotefests the non favoured hand?

You get that, don't you?

[Cussy]

The quoting isn't the issue, its the nonsense that you added in between.

[DDFan]

The quoting isn't the issue, its the nonsense that you added in between.Spell out the nonsense & I'll do my best to fix it.

BTW, in case you didn't realise, the whole post back at Ricnat was a pisstake, with a quotefest twist. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Get the idea? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

WTF

[Cussy]

Spell out the nonsense & I'll do my best to fix it.

Ok, here it is

I have a confession to make, I think I may be the guilty party that kicked this horrendous media beat uP. Carfs' a gentleman, so he's never dobbed on me, but I knew that he desperately wanted to close out his career as a 36er (we had money then), so I threw it out there. Memory blur, but it may've gone like:
"Carfs me ol' mate, it's not gonna hapPen (& I was right, once again), but if you do what I'm tell'n you to do bro, you'll have a career stitched uP in the media & be quoted on the internet for an eternity.
Fact is, I'm a smooth talk'n bastard & history, is history.
It's been confirmed in every poll, Carf has never retracted his call (so there should be no doubting), Oprah endorsed it, but it never got air time, & George Negus will look into it, if you'll fund his lasik surgery & lid lifts.
You hate on Carfs cause he played for the Sydney Kings, I can see it a mile off.
I ask you, what can you put on TVs now, when retail stores only stock those ridiculously $lim designer LCD & plasma finga me bobs?
fixed
Define sh1t. ;)

BTW, in case you didn't realise, the whole post back at Ricnat was a pisstake.

A pisstake about what? You can write completely nonsensical crap and then just say "oh it was a pisstake" and expect the LOL's to roll in.

[DDFan]

A pisstake about what? You can write completely nonsensical crap and then just say "oh it was a pisstake" and expect the LOL's to roll in.FFFFFS, I'm cool with Ricnat, I honestly laugh along with everyone about the "most knowledgeable" tag. Not that I agree or otherwise, it's the internet & the media.
Plain simple truth, I wasn't affronted by his post, nor anyone else's indignation of the oft mentioned "knowledgeable" continuum.
I jokingly rolled along with it, & I'm surprised that it's still busting people's balls today.

Is that clear enough?

late note: I've been called out on the "you can't dump shit & then try to worm your way out of it, with just kidding".

hint, PM Nerf Herder & see what came of that.

[SB.1]

Cussy, has mattic hacked your a/c?

[Cussy]

No, I just have zero idea what any of the above posts mean, and how they relate to the discussion, and why we need to have this conversation once a week. Inane ramblings are only fun for one person.

[The Glove]

it's fun for those not participating and just observing.

[Cussy]

So if I'd said nothing, I would have enjoyed them?

[hellcat]

Trust me, it's no fun to an observer.

On that note, on topic.

[The Glove]

So if I'd said nothing, I would have enjoyed them?

I think if you didnt say anything, it wouldnt have gotten this far to be honest. ;)

[Ricnat]

FFFFFS, I'm cool with Ricnat, I honestly laugh along with everyone about the "most knowledgeable" tag. Not that I agree or otherwise, it's the internet & the media.
Plain simple truth, I wasn't affronted by his post, nor anyone else's indignation of the oft mentioned "knowledgeable" continuum.
I jokingly rolled along with it, & I'm surprised that it's still busting people's balls today.

Is that clear enough?

late note: I've been called out on the "you can't dump shit & then try to worm your way out of it, with just kidding".

hint, PM Nerf Herder & see what came of that.


I took DDFan's post for what it was. A bit of light hearted humour. Don't see how anyone could have taken the tone as serious.

P.s. I actually dont mind Steve Carfino as a comentator. He's a bit generic at times and likes to reitterate the same points. But he's got personality. Like several years ago he was commentating a game on TV, where a player did one of the biggest blocks you will ever see (in the NBL) and his comment was "Holy Shit did you see that!" at the top of his lungs on Free to Air. Very professional :)

[Cussy]

I took DDFan's post for what it was. A bit of light hearted humour. Don't see how anyone could have taken the tone as serious.


I know the tone wasn't serious. I just didn't understand what any of the "jokes" meant.

[SB.1]

And I thought it was just me. Just nod and smile.

[Southern Joe]

Any time you get an analysis from Joe about how something coulda been done, you know the conversation has finished.


... Why ? Is that because you have come around to realising I am right? ;)