Breakers at Crocs 20/11: Mazda sucks

[Derek]

Game day thread, seeing as no-one has posted one yet.

Tipoff is 7:30 Queensland time, and it's Ladies' Night at the Swamp- you could win a lunch double date with Jeff Dowdell and Michael Cedar! Aren't you EXCITED!>?!?

DN

[gangsta boo]

Can you post the leaflet thats been on the crocs fb page Derek? Perth fans would surely love to see a shirtless (with tie) Dowdell pic

[DDFan]

Game day thread, seeing as no-one has posted one yet.

Tipoff is 7:30 Queensland time, and it's Ladies' Night at the Swamp- you could win a lunch double date with Jeff Dowdell and Michael Cedar! Aren't you EXCITED!>?!?

DNDamn, I was hoping Rills was gonna make a show in his collector item jocks from "The OT" (can't remember which episode), for the ladies.

In my staunch OH&S & personal viewpoint, I think it's out of the question to ask players to hit the courts in thongs. I dearly hope that's not what the Ladies' Night at the Swamp is all about.

[Julian]

Can you post the leaflet thats been on the crocs fb page Derek? Perth fans would surely love to see a shirtless (with tie) Dowdell pic
Saw it on the front page of the Crocs website earlier this week. I cried.

[DJ Rod]

You mean THIS???
http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs005.snc3/11266_105144892832908_100000121933708_147400_24089 91_n.jpg

[Ricnat]

You mean THIS???
http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs005.snc3/11266_105144892832908_100000121933708_147400_24089 91_n.jpg

Bwahahahahah !! Cant stop laughing....face muscles hurting

Lets face it dressed up like that is the only way he is ever going to get any "ball(s)"

[DDFan]

Saw it on the front page of the Crocs website earlier this week. I cried.A broken heart Julian?
Not surprised.

[Crocodile Rock]

Let's get back onto the contest tonight:

Here are a few things I think both teams need to get the win...

Breakers-
- Bruton MUST find his offensive game tonight, needs to be aggressive early and attack Homicide on defense.
- Abercrombie needs to get some easy buckets and shoot a good clip. He is heavily relied upon now.
- Ronaldson and Rickert need to give them some inside buckets to relieve the outside 3.
- Forman, Bruton and Rillie need to hit 10 triples between them on the road in a shooter's gym.

Crocodiles-
- Williams must find some early buckets and make his free throws.
- Team must get some transition going to give Williams space and open up the shooters.
- Tovey, Hoare, Hinder and Roberts need to do 90 percent of the boarding.
- Cedar, Crawford and Williamson need to step up and drill 3's

Tip, Crocodiles at home by 4

[gangsta boo]

Thanks DJRod ; )

[crocintaipanterritory]

Welcome home, Andre and JR !

[Jive Turkey]

I expect a very strong and spirited performance from New Zealand tonight. This team needs to make some sort of statement and what better situation than tonight - off their worst offensive performance of the season, in a venue where they've historically done well and with a couple of individuals looking to settle an old score or two.

This team should be loaded to the eyelids with motivation tonight

[Derek]

Live stats are here. (http://www.fibalivestats.com/matches/1329/01/04/70/80p5vY6RMg4Sw/) Special broken formatting brought to you by Mazda!

DN

[meg]

So it's not just me then?

[Derek]

I'm only on a netbook here, you really notice all that wasted real estate when you only have a 1024x600 display to begin with.

23 minutes to tipoff.

Edit: Rillie just came out for warmups, to a very warm welcome from the early arrivers.

DN

[meg]

Zoom bloody zoom.

[Derek]

Tipoff delayed 5 minutes, y'all. Traffic around the Swamp is a bit messy, so they're going to try and give people more of a chance to arrive for the start.

DN

[cantremeber]

Tipoff delayed 5 minutes, y'all. Traffic around the Swamp is a bit messy, so they're going to try and give people more of a chance to arrive for the start.

DN

Tipoff meant to be 7:30. Delay for 5. Now 7:55.

Wassup over there Derek?

[Jive Turkey]

The NBL scoreboard has been fcuking moosed again :mad:

[crocintaipanterritory]

what's the f%^king score ?- no live stats!!

[KobeFlash]

NBL website just posted this:

The Townsville Crocodiles lead the New Zealand Breakers 31-26 with 4:58 remaining in the second quarter of their clash at 'The Swamp'.

The Crocs led the Breakers 25-14 at quarter time.

Internet issues at the venue have interupted the live stats service from the game but score updates will be provided as often as possible.

[Alex_Traitor]

Tennis, anyone?

Sorry score, anyone?

[The Howster]

The internet connection at the venue has apparently failed but we are providing score updates as often as we can here:

http://www.nbl.com.au/index.php?id=15&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=14455&tx_ttnews[backPid]=4&cHash=13eb8960fc

[meg]

37-37 ht. Tovey 12 Homicide 9 Rolan 4. CJ 11 Forman 9 Aberc. 6. Boffins now furiously at work on our net connection at @TsvCrocs

dadadadadadadadadadada

[paul]

Rivus working beautifully. Invest your $5 and forget about the live stats!

[meg]

If that's the case Paul, maybe you should be giving updates instead of me via facebook??

[Alex_Traitor]

I've been shaped so Rivus is a no go for me, please keep posting live scores here.

[Jive Turkey]

3/4 Time: Breakers 51-44

go you good thing$$$$ !

[surfsup]

Ohhhh yeahhhhhhh

Cheers for the tip off on the fix "John"

[Jive Turkey]

3/4 Time: Breakers 51-44

go you good thing$$$$ !

hang on, that's only midway through the 3rd period

[DDFan]

Plenty of time yet for refs to foul out the Breakers. :p

[Alex_Traitor]

scor pleis

[meg]

Breakers up on Crocs with one to go (http://www.nbl.com.au/index.php?id=15&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=14455&tx_ttnews[backPid]=4&cHash=13eb8960fc)
The New Zealand Breakers lead the Townsville Crocodiles 63-57 with one quarter remaining in their Friday night clash at 'The Swamp'.
(http://www.nbl.com.au/index.php?id=15&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=14455&tx_ttnews[backPid]=4&cHash=13eb8960fc)

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Jive Turkey]

has the fcuking carrier pidgeon arrived back yet ? Or is the NBL looking into an exciting, innovative, revolutionary new communication system called 'morse code' ? :rolleyes:

[meg]

I believe the internet has fallen over at The Swamp. Not much the NBL can do about that.

[paul]

Breakers win 85-73. Bruton 24, Forman 18 - Crawford 17, Williams 12 from memory.

Bruton controlled the game, Forman was fantaastic from all parts of the floor, Ronaldson was sensational in the last quarter. Rickert, Abercrombie, Henare and Boucher all solid contributors.

For Crocs, Crawford kept them alive but no one else consistenly produced to bridge the gap Bruton set up in the third quarter.

Some highlights - a massive Abercrombie block on Williams, and an even bigger Henare-Abercrombie alley oop to seal it. A number of PC moves were very smooth, but not as smooth as a number of Bruton's, who looked a completely different player to the last three weeks - probably a bit to do with the fact the Crocs didnt double team him as every other team has been doing - big mistake.

[Jive Turkey]

I believe the internet has fallen over at The Swamp. Not much the NBL can do about that.

yeah, I guess it's a rare "blip" on the finely tuned NBL radar that even the harshest critic of this slick organisation would forgive

[Silencer83]

How did Rillie go?

[Jive Turkey]

I expect a very strong and spirited performance from New Zealand tonight. This team needs to make some sort of statement and what better situation than tonight - off their worst offensive performance of the season, in a venue where they've historically done well and with a couple of individuals looking to settle an old score or two.

This team should be loaded to the eyelids with motivation tonight

I'd like to thank ....... myself .... for the $ound advice on who to back tonight :cool:

[paul]

Internet was fine for Rivus, but anyway, stuff happens and I am sure Derek would have got the live stats up if he possibly could.

Rillie played his role nicely in limited minutes, hit two sweet long threes. Still working his way into the team but is so smart that he doesnt hurt the team at all when out there, and makes the offence look better by his presence drawing the D out. Played some nice, intelligent D too, including on WIlliams on a couple of possessions.

I suspect Lemanis is seeing him as a nice replacement for Jones, with the excellent form of Boucher and Abercrombie able to cover the three, and Pledger, Rickert, Ronaldson and Forman more than capable of covering the 4-5.

Rickert, Forman, Abercrombie, Penney, Bruton
Pledger, Ronaldson, Boucher, Rillie, Henare (Webster)

If they all get fit and firing that is a good lineup, one with still a weakness of guarding strong 3's, but a super championship threat if firing.

[PyroCross]

Some highlights - a massive Abercrombie block on Williams, and an even bigger Henare-Abercrombie alley oop to seal it. A number of PC moves were very smooth, but not as smooth as a number of Bruton's, who looked a completely different player to the last three weeks - probably a bit to do with the fact the Crocs didnt double team him as every other team has been doing - big mistake.

This is why the alley-oop to Abercrombie needs to be used in away games; purely to a) shift momentum and b) silence the crowd. I haven't seen one yet where Abercrombie misses the dunk. He needs a nickname "The Flying [???]". I was thinking Cougar (in a reference to Washington State), but we need to work something out here.

Big away win. This may shift momentum with Penney hopefully coming back next week.

[cantremeber]

BTW - anyone else see this on nbl.com.au

NBL POLL
Are Townsville legitimate title contenders this season?
votes: 358
41.3 % Yes 148 votes
58.7 % No 210 votes

[Silencer83]

This is why the alley-oop to Abercrombie needs to be used in away games; purely to a) shift momentum and b) silence the crowd. I haven't seen one yet where Abercrombie misses the dunk. He needs a nickname "The Flying [???]". I was thinking Cougar (in a reference to Washington State), but we need to work something out here.

Big away win. This may shift momentum with Penney hopefully coming back next week.

He may not have missed the dunk in the game at Challenge but when they tried it Stephen Weigh picked off the pass.

[paul]

I think Jammercrombie works nicely and goes well with the Pledgehammer, but I know what you mean. Breakers 6-6 and very well positioned if Penney is back soon, particualrly with three home games in a row against Cairns, Wollongong and Perth.

Big game tomorrow night for Gold Coast on their home floor to stay close to the top 4.

[paul]

The elevation on Weigh's jumper is a thing of beauty - a bit like a 6'7 Brett Maher in that respect. I think he is a Boomer of the future for sure, along with Ingles, Barlow, Newley and Worthington we have a very impressive group of tall athletic 2-3 men.

[mattic]

Crocs had a great first quarter and were 21-7 up until the last minutes of the first, when they all decided they'd done enough. Hard to switch back on after you do that. So, of course, we lost. Bloody Crocs!

Am I correct in saying that our away record is now better than our home?

[paul]

4-4 away, 2-3 home I think.

[Melb Wildcat]

WOW stats read Rolan Roberts 7 steals? Surely cannot be correct?

[Alex_Traitor]

The Breakers steadied the ship with CJ Brunton and Oscar Forman dropping in three pointers to close the margin to just four.

Brunton showed perfect touch from the free-throw line to lock up scores 37-37 at half-time.

[curious]

Williams under the pump I would imagine.
Hinder 1/10!!
Toves 6/7 showing his potential.
RR lots of steals and boards but only a meagre 9 points, and 1/5!! from the line.
All in all a very disappointing performance from the Crocs.

[curious]

The Breakers steadied the ship with CJ Brunton and Oscar Forman dropping in three pointers to close the margin to just four.

Brunton showed perfect touch from the free-throw line to lock up scores 37-37 at half-time.
As long as Sportal are involved it will never, ever be perfect.
It might be an idea for the NBL to proof things before they post them.

[Cussy]

Toves 6/7 showing his potential.


Tovey has been showing his potential for years, he is yet to produce on a consistent basis.

[Derek]

WOW stats read Rolan Roberts 7 steals? Surely cannot be correct?

Was indeed correct- defensively Rolan had a great game.

Final stats are up here (http://www.fibalivestats.com/matches/1329/01/04/70/80p5vY6RMg4Sw/).

It sucks not having live stats, but there's very little we can do in terms of network diagnostics when we can only work for 60 seconds at a time. This was a game where overall very little went right- heavy traffic due to a school formal at Jupiters Casino (next door) meant a lot of people were late to the game, we had internet issues, and the Croc's attempt to 'distract' the Breakers with a sheep only resulted in the (very real) sheep covering the court in (very real) urine.

Tovey and Crawford top-scored for Townsville- those two being in form was good to see. The Crocs didn't have much offensively from anywhere else, however, the rest of the team shooting 16/52 combined. Crocs' offence is still very ugly if Homicide doesn't get going.

Breakers got good contributions all round. Rillie had 8 points on 2/4 in 12 minutes and 0 turnovers, Rickert played well down low, Forman shot well, and CJ was Good CJ instead of Bad CJ. Abercrombie didn't shoot well but showed some skill (despite the Green Machine's heckling)- one play where he split two defenders and drained a 20-footer was particularly pretty.

DN

[cairns]

Why is it that for the third fricken time when a team has a Cairns-Townsville road game...Cairns seems to be winning but our sister-team seems to cop the flack?? Seriously Townsville Crocs had the opportunity to capitalise on a wounded NZ Breakers coming off a loss in Cairns... Frustrating when Cairns wins but Townsville loses :mad:

[Bring back the Bullets]

Unbelievable win by the Breakers...one that could turn their season right around. They really got on a role late in the third and the Crocs just couldn't reel them back in. Tovey had a great first half, especially with his driving to the bucket. Unfortunately for the Crocs nobody stepped up in the second half and only Crawford looked like he could turn it around for them. Williams and especially Hinder were terrible.

Dillon Boucher shut down Homicide when he matched up on him(which was often) and drew a great charge as well as a clean strip and assit to Foreman for the open layup(a dagger and play of the game for mine).

Bruton dominated the offence and drew fouls like he does and Ronaldson came up with some massive plays down the stretch.

Great fun watching the crowd supporting Rillie but keeping it in check to stay loyal to Townsville. He got burned a few times on 'D', but did his job offensively. The Crocs paid him way too much respect on defence and really stayed glued to him allowing others to get involved.

Penney should be back next week to strengthen the Breakers.

From a neutral perspective a really enjoyable game....

[Jive Turkey]

Why is it that for the third fricken time when a team has a Cairns-Townsville road game...Cairns seems to be winning but our sister-team seems to cop the flack?? Seriously Townsville Crocs had the opportunity to capitalise on a wounded NZ Breakers coming off a loss in Cairns... Frustrating when Cairns wins but Townsville loses :mad:

WTF ??!

If you truly are "Cairns" by name and nature, you should be dancing in the streets right now ...! I lived there long enough to know those jerks from Townsville don't feel a lick of sympathy for Cairns, EVER !

[cairns]

WTF ??!

If you truly are "Cairns" by name and nature, you should be dancing in the streets right now ...! I lived there long enough to know those jerks from Townsville don't feel a lick of sympathy for Cairns, EVER !
You maybe partly right with the whole sympathy thingo with both cities. However being a North Queenslander and given the proximity & size of both our two cities...obviously im going to support Townsville as my second preferred team. I see it unhealthy to bag out our sister team, however i still like to have friendly rivalry discussions about our cities. I understand that not everyone in NQ are going to be as "embracing as me" but should Townsville Crocs supporters chose not to support Cairns as thier second team, well thats something beyond my control.

[Crocodile Rock]

I will say this again, Corey Williams is useless to the Crocodiles when all they are doing is catching the ball out of the net. He excels when they get long boards and chances to run out giving him one on one or two on one fast break chances. Defenders have enough room and speed to contain him in a half court game. I think his individual performances reflect on the team's defence.

Game notes:
- Townsville made a huge mistake allowing Bruton to play a poor defender in Williams one on one. He also made sure he went to work when smaller Robertson marked him.
- Dillon Boucher gave the Breakers (rough count) 7 extra possessions due to hustle and tap-backs. In a close game that is the decisive point.
- Ronaldson did not look for any offence until the end of the 3rd with a bomb to give them breathing space. In the 4th he then hit 2 big buckets
- Rillie, whilst showing some signs of the long ball and savvy was shown up by Tovey on the defensive end. Numerous times Tovey went straight by him on the bounce.
- Rolan Roberts fouls problems are happening more than not, he MUST get them under control. It is dictating his performances. Yes he had 7 steals but he also may have went for 3 others which ended up in fouls and his arse on the bench.
- Hinder couldn't get a bucket in the post v Boucher, Trueman or Bear but had 6 reb and 7 ass. Also had a hook that did not get above the hoop.
- Cedar needs to find a way to get his shot off even when teams mark him hard. He is only 6-3 and Abercrombie at 6-6 and with long arms meant he had no look.
- Tovey was the Crocodiles best by a mile in 1st half then seen little action in the second. Was mind-bobbling stuff.
- Williamson must see more early action in my opinion.
- Crawford is finding his groove but to the detriment of the team offence.

Next up for Townsville, a home date with Adelaide and Cairns followed by the re-match @ Challenge Stadium.

[JimT]

You are on the mark.
Our offence was pathetic

Hinder 1 of 10? What the hell is that! Is Captaincy putting too much pressure on this guy and affectging his game?

Rolan 4/10 was average but they could have executed better in getting him the ball earlier and would have resulted in more points.

Free Throws pathetic Rolan 1/5 Toovey 2/5 I am no proffesional baller but I can hit a higher % than this in my back yard every day of the week!

3 pointers 6 of 22 (27%)
Crawford was the only shining light here, Williamson, Cedar, Robertson all pathetic considering they are all paid to be 3 point shooters Hinder also 0 of 4. (He needs to find an inside game.)

Homicide - teams have worked out how to play him, 2 assists from him is also not good enough from a point guard. He needs to lean how to drive then dish it out for someone to spot up the 3 or trailing floater/jump shot.

We had the wrong guy guarding Bruton, should have been Tovey or Crawford not Cedar or Robertson. Or gone to the double team.

I could analyse all day but all in all 2 of the main glaring problems lost the game,
1) our ability to knock down 3's
2) not guarding Bruton affectively.

This team still has problems if they want to challange for a title, dont think we have the right members to do this. Yet again!
God knows we have been waiting long enough, what is it 18 years, something like that??
Anyone else got an opinion different to this?

[crocintaipanterritory]

WTF ??!

If you truly are "Cairns" by name and nature, you should be dancing in the streets right now ...! I lived there long enough to know those jerks from Townsville don't feel a lick of sympathy for Cairns, EVER !

So true

[crocintaipanterritory]

You are on the mark.
Our offence was pathetic

Hinder 1 of 10? What the hell is that! Is Captaincy putting too much pressure on this guy and affectging his game?

Rolan 4/10 was average but they could have executed better in getting him the ball earlier and would have resulted in more points.

Free Throws pathetic Rolan 1/5 Toovey 2/5 I am no proffesional baller but I can hit a higher % than this in my back yard every day of the week!

3 pointers 6 of 22 (27%)
Crawford was the only shining light here, Williamson, Cedar, Robertson all pathetic considering they are all paid to be 3 point shooters Hinder also 0 of 4. (He needs to find an inside game.)

Homicide - teams have worked out how to play him, 2 assists from him is also not good enough from a point guard. He needs to lean how to drive then dish it out for someone to spot up the 3 or trailing floater/jump shot.

We had the wrong guy guarding Bruton, should have been Tovey or Crawford not Cedar or Robertson. Or gone to the double team.

I could analyse all day but all in all 2 of the main glaring problems lost the game,
1) our ability to knock down 3's
2) not guarding Bruton affectively.

This team still has problems if they want to challange for a title, dont think we have the right members to do this. Yet again!
God knows we have been waiting long enough, what is it 18 years, something like that??
Anyone else got an opinion different to this?

So what, 18 years? Some teams have never won it..... Enjoy the ride, I have. The crocs will never buy a championship, like others in the past have.

[Nerf Herder]

Good to see my FNBL captain (CJ) getting some quality form back...

All of these posts and not one comment about the refs... maybe the townsville bulletin (http://www.nbl.com.au/index.php?id=36&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=14459&tx_ttnews[backPid]=4&cHash=0f1becb7b5) article and Gleesons comments are just a bit of sour grapes? Especially if there's no bitching from forum monkeys :)

[paul]

I would say teams know what they are going to get from the refs this year, even if the interpretation they are instructed to ref with doesnt really fit professional basketball. They are calling it tight and calling pretty much all contact, with pretty much all the benefit of the doubt going to the offensive player.

Rolan Roberts third foul was a very bad call, but I didnt think the refs had a big impact on the game overall.

[DJ Rod]

trust me... they were terrible at best!

missed 2 3's where feet were on the line - one of those, a NZ player had BOTH feet on the line.

some calls were unexplainable... The Crocs are looking to recruit Luke O'Donnell from the NQ Cowboys

The referee's boss was there tonight and surely he has to take some heat for the crew he assembled last nite! I dont think i've ever seen a less experienced crew.

[2sc945]

Bwahahahahah !! Cant stop laughing....face muscles hurting

Lets face it dressed up like that is the only way he is ever going to get any "ball(s)"



http://www.abledata.com/product_images/images/94A1351.jpg


He certainly enjoys playing "balls",


http://www.abledata.com/product_images/images/99A0519.jpg


should be a pretty good "player" I think. http://www.ozhoopsboards.com/images/icons/icon10.gif


http://www.abledata.com/product_images/images/99A0542.jpg

[Derek]

The referee's boss was there tonight and surely he has to take some heat for the crew he assembled last nite! I dont think i've ever seen a less experienced crew.

Just because we don't see much of two of those referees, doesn't make them inexperienced. Scott Beker is FIBA-level, and Phil Ahrens has done NBL and WNBL for a number of years. (Local ref Jenny Froling was the third.)

DN

[2sc945]

LOL Russell Hinder 1/10 FG got an off night in scoring but his other stats were pretty impressive. IMO Roberts (24m) and Hoare (17m) should be given more playing time in this game, Hinder is a smart but soft centre and only a tough and athletic centre (he doesn't have to be tall though) will do the job against a tough but under-coached team like the Breakers.

[GordonG]

You maybe partly right with the whole sympathy thingo with both cities. However being a North Queenslander and given the proximity & size of both our two cities...obviously im going to support Townsville as my second preferred team. I see it unhealthy to bag out our sister team, however i still like to have friendly rivalry discussions about our cities. I understand that not everyone in NQ are going to be as "embracing as me" but should Townsville Crocs supporters chose not to support Cairns as thier second team, well thats something beyond my control.

I agree 100%.

[crocintaipanterritory]

Just because we don't see much of two of those referees, doesn't make them inexperienced. Scott Beker is FIBA-level, and Phil Ahrens has done NBL and WNBL for a number of years. (Local ref Jenny Froling was the third.)

DN

but they're still useless derek!

[2sc945]

You mean THIS???
http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs005.snc3/11266_105144892832908_100000121933708_147400_24089 91_n.jpg


Hard work (old-fashioned) (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Old_penis_pump_p.718.jpg) will make him a better "player".

Mod note: link is on Wikipedia but is borderline Not Safe For Work.

[meg]

As many know, I'm quite the fan of the wacky picture, but please re-size....it's too big and messing with the page format, which is quite unforgivable.

[Clips]

Will you piss off with your pictures already?

edit: and what Meg said.. as long as it is semi relevant. Not any of the shit posted above.

[cairns]

So true
I guess its part of the ongoing inter-city rivalry...love it or hate it with a passion i say :p

[SB.1]

You mean THIS???
http://photos-g.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs005.snc3/11266_105144892832908_100000121933708_147400_24089 91_n.jpg

Straight to Remarqable's pool room.

[JimT]

Good to see my FNBL captain (CJ) getting some quality form back...

All of these posts and not one comment about the refs... maybe the townsville bulletin (http://www.nbl.com.au/index.php?id=36&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=14459&tx_ttnews[backPid]=4&cHash=0f1becb7b5) article and Gleesons comments are just a bit of sour grapes? Especially if there's no bitching from forum monkeys :)

There deffinately was at least 3 calls that were very questionable by refs against Crocs and at least 2 calls more blatantly obvious against New Zealand that were not called.
That said I can only talk about the things that the Crocs can control to make them better. Bitching about the refs will never get anyhere and may even back fire against them.
You have some games when the refs have got it right and others they don't. This one I dont think was very well refereed at all. Those guys were not Scott Butler calibre by a long shot.
So no I dont think Trevor Gleeson sour grapes at all but saying how he saw it. Williams and Roberts both had 3 fouls each and deffiantely had an impact on how they were playing.
However they should have kept playing with guts and not being sheepish, at least if they were fouled out they would go out fighting for the win.

[curious]

So what, 18 years? Some teams have never won it..... Enjoy the ride, I have. The crocs will never buy a championship, like others in the past have.

So, mediocre for 18 seasons is acceptable?
The fans want a Premiership.
As time goes on the Crocs fans are disappearing.
Once the owners start losing money, they will leave.
Maybe they should look at getting the player mix right, at whatever (reasonable) co$t.
This season is shaping as a potential disater.
Gleeson was talking about only the other day of the 'Crocs Fortress'.
If the ref's are to blame that will never help their cause.
Croc's need to work a LOT harder to be a threat, IMO.

[cantremeber]

So, mediocre for 18 seasons is acceptable?
The fans want a Premiership.
As time goes on the Crocs fans are disappearing.
Once the owners start losing money, they will leave.
Maybe they should look at getting the player mix right, at whatever (reasonable) co$t.
This season is shaping as a potential disater.
Gleeson was talking about only the other day of the 'Crocs Fortress'.
If the ref's are to blame that will never help their cause.
Croc's need to work a LOT harder to be a threat, IMO.

That sentiment has been expressed here for years curious.

BTW - the crowd was about 3,700 the other night. Does anyone have a database of Croc attendances?

Whilst still early, one feels that if the Crocs fail to make the grade AGAIN (by winning the whole thing) this year in a league that has but 8 teams and perceived by many to be ripe for the pickings with no Brisbane, Sydney and but one Melb team - then the backlash will be considerable.

I hate to think of the sentiment if they dont even make the playoffs.....

One wonders if the decision by DC to leave/retire/bail was prescient.

[crocintaipanterritory]

So, mediocre for 18 seasons is acceptable?
The fans want a Premiership.
As time goes on the Crocs fans are disappearing.
Once the owners start losing money, they will leave.
Maybe they should look at getting the player mix right, at whatever (reasonable) co$t.
This season is shaping as a potential disater.
Gleeson was talking about only the other day of the 'Crocs Fortress'.
If the ref's are to blame that will never help their cause.
Croc's need to work a LOT harder to be a threat, IMO.

Mediocre ? Perhaps when they were the suns for the 1st couple of seasons. But i remember many years of shock and awe. Undefeated 16 games straight ( with beards and all) Another we went 22 and 4. Mediocre? You make me laugh.

[cantremeber]

Mediocre ? Perhaps when they were the suns for the 1st couple of seasons. But i remember many years of shock and awe. Undefeated 16 games straight ( with beards and all) Another we went 22 and 4. Mediocre? You make me laugh.

Methinks you are a bit close to the "action" to give an unbiased view

Tell me then - whats your theory as to why the Crocs have failed to deliver the Championship to the city?

[paul]

The Crocs are an excellent organisation who are viable off court and consistenly in the top half on the court (4 or 5 semi finals appearances and 1 gf appearance in the last decade? That's exceptional).

They have refused to spend the big money on players that might have brought a title but also would have put the viability of the club at risk. Sure, the expectations of many in Townsville are unrealistically high, but they are still in a solid position as a club, particularly when you consider the state of the league overall.

Making the top four this year would be a good achievement because a playoff berth has never been so tough to get, and I think they are a decent chance to do that.

[curious]

Mediocre ? Perhaps when they were the suns for the 1st couple of seasons. But i remember many years of shock and awe. Undefeated 16 games straight ( with beards and all) Another we went 22 and 4. Mediocre? You make me laugh.
22/4 and?
If you are happy with that, that's fine.
Most people don't remember that stat. No reason to without a title to go with it.
22/4 and a premiership, is a far better stat to have.

[paul]

True Curious, but it still isnt mediocre.

[cantremeber]

The Crocs are an excellent organisation who are viable off court and consistenly in the top half on the court (4 or 5 semi finals appearances and 1 gf appearance in the last decade? That's exceptional).

They have refused to spend the big money on players that might have brought a title but also would have put the viability of the club at risk. Sure, the expectations of many in Townsville are unrealistically high, but they are still in a solid position as a club, particularly when you consider the state of the league overall.

Making the top four this year would be a good achievement because a playoff berth has never been so tough to get, and I think they are a decent chance to do that.

Paul - forgive me, mate but its codswallop to say that expectations are "unrealisticlally high" for many.

When exactly would YOU suggest it becomes reasonable to have high expectations to have won a championship....in 10 MORE years? 20 more years? Surely even for you that point must be reached. For most 18 years has passed the mark.

And as for spinning the point that its now harder to get a playoff berth than before....again - a load of nonsense and spin

The league, for mine, may be a closer affair but the quality of the teams seems lower to me and the powerhouses of the past simply dont exist

If the Crocs fail again this year it will be due to either coaching, players or management or a synergy of all three

The only thing constantly good is the fan base.

And that my good friend - along with its sponsor base - is eroding and doing so quickly

Now if you think that is unrelated to the teams capacity to make the grade so be it.

But you'd be wrong

[paul]

Their performances over the past decade have certainly made the grade. As I stated earlier, the Crocs havent been prepared to risk the viability of the club to spend the money necessary to win a title. Good for them, they have instead put a competitive team on the floor that usually makes the playoffs and (apart from so far this year) wins most of their home games.

I think if people in Townsville cant appreciate that, they dont know how good they have it. Much better than Magic, Kings, Bullets and Dragons fans who have titles but no team.

[crocintaipanterritory]

Paul - forgive me, mate but its codswallop to say that expectations are "unrealisticlally high" for many.

When exactly would YOU suggest it becomes reasonable to have high expectations to have won a championship....in 10 MORE years? 20 more years? Surely even for you that point must be reached. For most 18 years has passed the mark.

And as for spinning the point that its now harder to get a playoff berth than before....again - a load of nonsense and spin

The league, for mine, may be a closer affair but the quality of the teams seems lower to me and the powerhouses of the past simply dont exist

If the Crocs fail again this year it will be due to either coaching, players or management or a synergy of all three

The only thing constantly good is the fan base.

And that my good friend - along with its sponsor base - is eroding and doing so quickly

Now if you think that is unrelated to the teams capacity to make the grade so be it.

But you'd be wrong

How do you know the sponsor base is eroding quickly? Are you on the board of the crocs? I know one "major sponsor" that absolutely is passionate about the crocs and is committed to see them do well every year. The people of townsville know the crocs will not "buy" a championship. If they win one, then congratulations to them. Do you live in TSV ? So how can you state that the fans are eroding. Last time i looked there were crocs junior programs in the schools,all the corporate boxes are sold out, and how come most ex crocs still live in TSV? Pat Reidy, Andrew goodwin, Rob Rose, John Rillie, David Blaze, just to name a few. Townsville fans are loyal, and whether its 18 years,or 118 years it doesn't matter. As long as they are competitive and not easy beats.

[crocintaipanterritory]

Their performances over the past decade have certainly made the grade. As I stated earlier, the Crocs havent been prepared to risk the viability of the club to spend the money necessary to win a title. Good for them, they have instead put a competitive team on the floor that usually makes the playoffs and (apart from so far this year) wins most of their home games.

I think if people in Townsville cant appreciate that, they dont know how good they have it. Much better than Magic, Kings, Bullets and Dragons fans who have titles but no team.

I agree, titles but no team. i would be upset if i was a kings supporter, " we won the title 3 times ! " "But where is your team ?" " umm, good question...."

[DDFan]

I can't believe that peeps are taking curious' bait seriously.
This whole titles wins fans thing has been done to death, & without fail, has failed completely. Only an absolute retard would suggest that a sustainable club (18 years without a title), should change course & spend uP for a title.
For the record, I've always enjoyed match-ups against the Crocs. The games have always been entertaining & played in good spirit. That does it for me.
I'd go so far as to ask, how many clubs have chased titles at all costs, not been entertaining, & disappeared forever? Let's face it, in these difficult financial times, no club is uP on attendances this season (ignore those fictitious attendance numbers).
I'd be delighted if a club packed out their venue last year & haven't improved, but that's not likely.

[cantremeber]

How do you know the sponsor base is eroding quickly? Are you on the board of the crocs? I know one "major sponsor" that absolutely is passionate about the crocs and is committed to see them do well every year. The people of townsville know the crocs will not "buy" a championship. If they win one, then congratulations to them. Do you live in TSV ? So how can you state that the fans are eroding. Last time i looked there were crocs junior programs in the schools,all the corporate boxes are sold out, and how come most ex crocs still live in TSV? Pat Reidy, Andrew goodwin, Rob Rose, John Rillie, David Blaze, just to name a few. Townsville fans are loyal, and whether its 18 years,or 118 years it doesn't matter. As long as they are competitive and not easy beats.

How do i do I know the sponsor base is eroding?

i look and I listen.

There are....what...14 empty boxes in the Swamp? Unheard of.

Now if that make your believe there isnt an issue with getting sponsor commitment then fine. Box in

Crowds are down. Undeniably. Not being privvy to the calculations but I do understand there is a break-even crowd #$ and if this trend continues then this will be breeched. Then watch the feathers fly

Again if you think that means there is nothing to address....fine.

But youre wrong

[mattic]

Ok, enough with your idea of what, if anything, is wrong.
What's your solution?

[cantremeber]

Ok, enough with your idea of what, if anything, is wrong.
What's your solution?

Well the first thing would be to recognise there just might be a problem. Taking crocsintaipancountry and paul as a measure - it would appear they believe there needs to be no change whatsoever - all's good.

Secondly I'd ask....what representation is there on the Board of those who have played the game?

Thirdly, I'd look at the dynamic which exists between who the coach wants for his roster and the control exerted by the Board over who makes the squad.

And whist i am a fan - to a great extent - of an economic rationalism clearly aimed at the viability of the club, I'd also be right in stating that the bottom line has almost always been the measure. And at times clearly to the detriment of the on-court performance. Decisions such as those which have been reached in the past should be examined critically reviewed and perhaps a new rationale developed.

[TOID]

I never thought I would have to say this. Basketball here is in trouble.

Clearly there is tough times being seen at the crocs. It may be a result of the global downturn, soccer, poor performance or the general discontent with the running of basketball in general (nbl, ba ).

The fact is there are empty sponsors boxes which is unusual for the crocs. About 10 to 15 percent empty. There are a lot of empty seats and if the previously qouted figure of crowd attendance is correct then the crocs are losing money now.

It is unquestioned that the board or amnagement is trying to fix the attendance, it can only get worse as empty seats that are led by season ticket holders this year are not going to sell next year.

Winning does help and the crocs have been reasonably succesfull on the court. Hugely successfull off the court. Comes a time when supporters will not come to watch a team come third every year. Unless they are all locals, or play in the local comp, or have some solid link with the community.

The coach has done a admirable job with the team in previous years, but has he lsot some of his players. It appears that players get in the doghouse and struggle to get out. Just my point of view from the stands, not really sure.

Having the croc dressed in leather underwear and gyrating on signs is not going to help.
Pricey is really missed and the pressure is starting to tell on the support crew around.

[curious]

'Board' selecting players and a 'player' on the Board?
Why?
The Board is there to ensure the Club operates well.
Let them stick to the business side of the operation.
Having a former player on the Board achieves? Unless they have businees accumen, then they aren't needed.

Board interference is not required, IMO. Let the Coach live and die by his choices.
Last I heard the Crocs Board does not interfere in Player selection.
Nor should they.

[cantremeber]

'Board' selecting players and a 'player' on the Board?
Why?
The Board is there to ensure the Club operates well.
Let them stick to the business side of the operation.
Having a former player on the Board achieves? Unless they have businees accumen, then they aren't needed.

Board interference is not required, IMO. Let the Coach live and die by his choices.
Last I heard the Crocs Board does not interfere in Player selection.
Nor should they.

Cant say i agree that an ex-players input - at the senior level management and decision making positions - has no value.

And on that as a point and refering to the claim of how great Tsv was given "....Last time I looked there were crocs junior programs in the schools, all the corporate boxes are sold out, and how come most ex crocs still live in TSV? Pat Reidy, Andrew goodwin, Rob Rose, John Rillie, David Blaze, just to name a few."

....first up all the boxes HAVENT been sold. My count is 14 are empty and signless.

Secondly. What does the fact of where players decide to live after their contract with the Crocs ends have to do with the Croc's programme, per se? Says heaps about the lifestyle on offer and the community they feel part of.

More to the point - I'd ask that poster....how many ex-Crocs have remained involved, attached or in any way aligned with the club after they've left? How many? I'd suggest THAT is a far better measure.

Cant say for sure the Board has pulled rank on who the coach does or doesn't sign (as I've never been on the Board) but.....if I had to bet my last buck on that.....I'd go with that as a sure bet that they have.

I mean given what players are available, their value, the salary cap and the budget - its almost inconceivable that the hand of the board hasn't been felt in the decisions of the roster make-up.

And to TOID - re the attendance - from the NBL article...last para:

"The Crocodiles followed instructions from their bench and motioned for a set-play but it ended with Williams holding his hands in the air wondering what went wrong in a sign of the side's frustration.

The visitors saw the game out and despite a last ditch effort from Crawford, finished the encounter with an 85-73 win.

New Zealand Breakers 85 (Bruton 24, Forman 18, Rickert 12)

Townsville Crocodiles 73 (Crawford 17, Tovey 15, Williams 14,)

@Townsville Entertainment Centre 20/11/09 Attendance 3778"

[mattic]

Well the first thing would be to recognise there just might be a problem. Taking crocsintaipancountry and paul as a measure - it would appear they believe there needs to be no change whatsoever - all's good.

Secondly I'd ask....what representation is there on the Board of those who have played the game?

Thirdly, I'd look at the dynamic which exists between who the coach wants for his roster and the control exerted by the Board over who makes the squad.

And whist i am a fan - to a great extent - of an economic rationalism clearly aimed at the viability of the club, I'd also be right in stating that the bottom line has almost always been the measure. And at times clearly to the detriment of the on-court performance. Decisions such as those which have been reached in the past should be examined critically reviewed and perhaps a new rationale developed.

So you mean you want the board open the purse strings and buy a championship.
No thanks, I'd be against such a move.

[JimT]

So you mean you want the board open the purse strings and buy a championship.
No thanks, I'd be against such a move.

Just for some clarification
Sydney
Brisbane
Adelaide
Perth
Woolongong
Tigers
Dragons

with the exception of Taipans and Gold Coast who are newer teams have ALL won Grand Finals!
So are we saying that Townsville are the only law abiding team and are remaining within the salary cap to remain a sustainable business for years to come and that every other team in the league who has won a championship cheaters! I would believe some possibly have but not all.

I you forgot when Woolongong kicked our arse in 2001 not exactly the most talented team and we were right there with them and had the talent back then to win.

Our problem is getting the team mix right and getting the chemistry happening something that has eluded us from the days Stacker had the pull to get great name players here Heeellllooooo Rob Rose, Pat Reidy, Mike Kelly Andrew Goodwin the current lineup does not even come close to the calibre of these guys.

Our problem is not on the floor but in the front office where the management sit down and decide who they are going to recruit each year and decide what everyones role on the team is going to be. I believe they setlle on what they think will be competitive enough to cover their arses. I dont think they are spending enough time time getting the player mix right. For christs sake one phone call from Rillie to Gordie McCloud and they get freakin Tywain McKee, hello has anyone seen how good this guy is? He practically single handedly pulled us apart on 2 occassions.

So I dont know if you play any competitve sport "Matti" but when I played I played to win. Thats why you play to enjoy the feeling of winning. Thats why I go to games to see them WIN.
I am sick of going to games and watching them get flogged, watching the croud numbers drop every game, looking at all the empty boxes.
Dont you remember what the atmosphere used to be like we would have the whole house stamping their feat to a rumble, waves happening, passionate fans. Why because we had a great team with a fighting spirit. Now everyone is just sitting back and going oh well another loss not to worry.

Not friggin good enough anymore as far as i am concerned, I have been payin for 2 tickets since the Suns/Crocs started and would expect in 18 friggin years that they might get it right. JUST ONCE!
Based on the croud numbers alot of other people think the same!

[crocintaipanterritory]

So you mean you want the board open the purse strings and buy a championship.
No thanks, I'd be against such a move.

I agree, open the purse strings and then we are doomed. Crocs will become extinct. A lot of these people think here that you should just throw money at it to win a championship. But unfortunately the real world doesn't work like that. The crocs are a business, not a government dept. And you can't spend money that you don't have. The crocs work to a budget, and they stick to it. And it has worked fine for 18 years......

[crocintaipanterritory]

Just for some clarification
Sydney
Brisbane
Adelaide
Perth
Woolongong
Tigers
Dragons

with the exception of Taipans and Gold Coast who are newer teams have ALL won Grand Finals!
So are we saying that Townsville are the only law abiding team and are remaining within the salary cap to remain a sustainable business for years to come and that every other team in the league who has won a championship cheaters! I would believe some possibly have but not all.

I you forgot when Woolongong kicked our arse in 2001 not exactly the most talented team and we were right there with them and had the talent back then to win.

Our problem is getting the team mix right and getting the chemistry happening something that has eluded us from the days Stacker had the pull to get great name players here Heeellllooooo Rob Rose, Pat Reidy, Mike Kelly Andrew Goodwin the current lineup does not even come close to the calibre of these guys.

Our problem is not on the floor but in the front office where the management sit down and decide who they are going to recruit each year and decide what everyones role on the team is going to be. I believe they setlle on what they think will be competitive enough to cover their arses. I dont think they are spending enough time time getting the player mix right. For christs sake one phone call from Rillie to Gordie McCloud and they get freakin Tywain McKee, hello has anyone seen how good this guy is? He practically single handedly pulled us apart on 2 occassions.

So I dont know if you play any competitve sport "Matti" but when I played I played to win. Thats why you play to enjoy the feeling of winning. Thats why I go to games to see them WIN.
I am sick of going to games and watching them get flogged, watching the croud numbers drop every game, looking at all the empty boxes.
Dont you remember what the atmosphere used to be like we would have the whole house stamping their feat to a rumble, waves happening, passionate fans. Why because we had a great team with a fighting spirit. Now everyone is just sitting back and going oh well another loss not to worry.

Not friggin good enough anymore as far as i am concerned, I have been payin for 2 tickets since the Suns/Crocs started and would expect in 18 friggin years that they might get it right. JUST ONCE!
Based on the croud numbers alot of other people think the same!

very selfish, Its not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game.....

[cantremeber]

very selfish, Its not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game.....

Mate, listening to you - clearly a passionate Croc fan but I'd bet a matzoh -with MAYBE...one degree of separation from someone in power.....your posts summon up the aphorism of "Deckchairs on the Titanic".

Believe whatever you want and I'll continue to see boxes emptying, the # empty seats growing but perhaps even more importantly - hear an ever increasing commentary from the "Faithful" that they are fed up, they will vote with their feet and how unhappy they are.

Now if you don't get that - then maybe you better get yer arse back down to Townsville and have a bit of a bo-peep.

[crocintaipanterritory]

Mate, listening to you - clearly a passionate Croc fan but I'd bet a matzoh -with MAYBE...one degree of separation from someone in power.....your posts summon up the aphorism of "Deckchairs on the Titanic".

Believe whatever you want and I'll continue to see boxes emptying, the # empty seats growing but perhaps even more importantly - hear an ever increasing commentary from the "Faithful" that they are fed up, they will vote with their feet and how unhappy they are.

Now if you don't get that - then maybe you better get yer arse back down to Townsville and have a bit of a bo-peep.

I go to every home game ??

[paul]

Just to clarify, since the Crocs entered the NBL 9 teams have won a championship, 5 of whom are no longer in the competition. Of the 4 remaining, Adelaide, Perth and Melbourne spent up big for their titles and have required at least one bailout from wealthy owners to stay alive. The other, Wollongong, narrowly beat Townsville in the grand final, and some would say that the Hawks were spending big at that time too, and have been bailed out twice to stay alive and are still trying to get their business in order to become viable over the long term.

I am just wondering that had the Crocs held firm in the last quarter of game 3 in 2001, would that make them a successful organisation? They lost that quarter and now they are mediocre?

I don’t think anyone is saying things in Townsville are perfect – a very long honeymoon period with the public is finally over – but they are still in a good position that every other NBL club would take in a heartbeat.

If BA can turn the competition around and increase its profile, the Crocs are in a good position to take advantage of that. With BA’s excellent work of creating adherence to the salary cap, the Crocs can continue on their current path and be a serious contender for the championship.

I would say their biggest issue is not off-court (corporate support for sport is down right around the world) but Trevor Gleeson’s reluctance to put together a decent frontcourt! That’s all that stands between them and being a genuine contender.

[crocintaipanterritory]

Just to clarify, since the Crocs entered the NBL 9 teams have won a championship, 5 of whom are no longer in the competition. Of the 4 remaining, Adelaide, Perth and Melbourne spent up big for their titles and have required at least one bailout from wealthy owners to stay alive. The other, Wollongong, narrowly beat Townsville in the grand final, and some would say that the Hawks were spending big at that time too, and have been bailed out twice to stay alive and are still trying to get their business in order to become viable over the long term.

I am just wondering that had the Crocs held firm in the last quarter of game 3 in 2001, would that make them a successful organisation? They lost that quarter and now they are mediocre?

I don’t think anyone is saying things in Townsville are perfect – a very long honeymoon period with the public is finally over – but they are still in a good position that every other NBL club would take in a heartbeat.

If BA can turn the competition around and increase its profile, the Crocs are in a good position to take advantage of that. With BA’s excellent work of creating adherence to the salary cap, the Crocs can continue on their current path and be a serious contender for the championship.

I would say their biggest issue is not off-court (corporate support for sport is down right around the world) but Trevor Gleeson’s reluctance to put together a decent frontcourt! That’s all that stands between them and being a genuine contender.

Couldn't have said it better !

[curious]

Crocs seething over refs.
http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/article/2009/11/23/95731_crocs.html

[DDFan]

To Croc fans that are disillusioned with all the "mediocrity", finance your dream of winning a title, by auctioning off your balls to the highest bidder. BTW, I could give you a title for free, but I've been given an infraction notice already within the last week.

[mattic]

Just for some clarification
If that was your intention, you immediately failed utterly.
Sydney
Brisbane
Adelaide
Perth
Woolongong
Tigers
Dragons

with the exception of Taipans and Gold Coast who are newer teams have ALL won Grand Finals!
Here's the slow boil as we head for the quantum-leap mis-deduction
So are we saying that Townsville are the only law abiding team and are remaining within the salary cap to remain a sustainable business for years to come and that every other team in the league who has won a championship cheaters!
No.

Oh dear!
This obviates the rest of the post.
<snip>

[Bring back the Bullets]

Does anybody know where one can see footage of the Abercrombie alley oop from the other night?

[paul]

Check the Crocs website, they often have footage of their games up.

[JimT]

If that was your intention, you immediately failed utterly.

Here's the slow boil as we head for the quantum-leap mis-deduction

No.

Oh dear!
This obviates the rest of the post.

Oh wow now heres someone who clearly just get their jollies out of trying to pick apart peoples posts when they cant find a decent reply to the content.
Wow thats really clever you are so smart. Is this your reply because you cant find the words to actually continue the conversation?

So does that mean you dont disagree with what I am saying?
Why dont you just take the message in the spirit it was intended instead of trying to make yourself look like a nerd!

[JimT]

very selfish, Its not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game.....

Oh please...
If thats your opinion then fine but thats what I pay money to go to the game for. If for you it meets your satisfaction I cant argue with that.

I hardly think that being selfish has anything to do with it. I am telling you I am not alone as people are starting to talk with their feet and their corporate dollars. These people are getting frustrated with the same thing.

If your happy just to go to the game with friends and family or sit in a box and have a good night out and just be happy with it as an entertainment venue thats good for you.

I personally go for the game and the game alone, couldnt care less about anything else. I want to see our team be successful on the court nothing else! Making it consistantly into the final 4 after 18 years doesnt cut it anymore for me.

So dont talk to me about being selfish, we both go to the games for different reasons and we both have different views.

[crocintaipanterritory]

Oh please...
If thats your opinion then fine but thats what I pay money to go to the game for. If for you it meets your satisfaction I cant argue with that.

I hardly think that being selfish has anything to do with it. I am telling you I am not alone as people are starting to talk with their feet and their corporate dollars. These people are getting frustrated with the same thing.

If your happy just to go to the game with friends and family or sit in a box and have a good night out and just be happy with it as an entertainment venue thats good for you.

I personally go for the game and the game alone, couldnt care less about anything else. I want to see our team be successful on the court nothing else! Making it consistantly into the final 4 after 18 years doesnt cut it anymore for me.

So dont talk to me about being selfish, we both go to the games for different reasons and we both have different views.

So again, what's the solution ? perhaps you should be the coach, chairman, on the board, make the decisions and waste all your's and your fellow board members money to buy the championship. Then after after achieving the championship (and feel great for 6 months), go broke, walk away, no more crocs and then what? follow the cowboys, fire, or fury?

[cantremeber]

So again, what's the solution ? perhaps you should be the coach, chairman, on the board, make the decisions and waste all your's and your fellow board members money to buy the championship. Then after after achieving the championship (and feel great for 6 months), go broke, walk away, no more crocs and then what? follow the cowboys, fire, or fury?

Perhaps CITC maybe if you see it as a bit of a continuum with, on one end, the rather draconian and fatalistic view you just put forward and on the other end the "fiscally responsible but doomed never to win a championship" mentality of the Board for the past upteen season and that movement needs to occur.

Maybe one can "loosen" the purse string rather than "open" the purse strings

And to a point, the owners of the club may be seen to "waste" their money on getting a championship. "Waste". however wouldnt necessarily be the word I would use but i can see how some on the Board might see it that way.

In the end, for mine, the "ownership" of the Crocs should transcend the simple business model. It IS about striving to win the thing and if that falls outside the strict business model (and no...I'm not saying go for broke...) then maybe they should get out.

But I fear these words will fall on deaf ears so I might let you get back to re-arranging the deckchairs

[scottgcau2]

So far the grand plan is to get an ex player into management and spend more money - ok what else? What roster changes should be made? Is the coach safe?

[cantremeber]

So far the grand plan is to get an ex player into management and spend more money - ok what else? What roster changes should be made? Is the coach safe?

Rome wasnt built in a day

Perhaps increasing the Game night presentation budget might be a thing to consider.

Also perhaps ensuring the person in charge of the Game Night has experience in putting on the show.

Also, liasing with the NBL to address some of the changes they have brought in that has really and SERIOUSLY degraded the game night presentation.

Re the coach and the Roster.....that is a tough one as its driven by the availability of players, their willingness to move to the North and the money that is available.

For mine, the issue for the Crocs roster has always been their failure to procure a center that becomes the core of the team around which the spot up shooters and the PG's can revolve.

Historically and unfailingly, that position has been the Achilles Heel and I believe the reason for their failure to achieve higher results

For me that would be the priority.

And it probably at this point where the collision between economic rationalism and budgetary limits collides with the realties of getting the right player

But as I like to say "Reality is as it is - not how you want it to be".

It may very well pan out that the reality of BB in OZ dictates that to get to the Final and win it....that the money issue has to addressed. And it may be that the reality of doing this mean that the viability of the club is brought into some doubt or at least the willingness of the owners to cop a loss.

But the converse is equally bleak and miserable., The Crocs who have shown a fiscal responsible approach are now starting experience the reality of dropping sponsorship and diminishing crowds...in SPITE of their best efforts!

So what happens when they - even with following their model - start to lose money??

It may be there is a fundamental weakness to the BB model here in Oz given the distances involved, the expenses associated, the demand of players for a suitable income, the draw of other markets on the talent, the competition that exists in the modern world and the economic situation that we all face

Sounds bleak...

[scottgcau2]

So the grand plan then is:
- recruit a star centre "that becomes the core of the team around which the spot up shooters and the PG's can revolve".
- spend more money and increase efforts on game night presentation
- spend more money on the roster
- recruit an ex player into management

Did I miss anything?

[cantremeber]

So the grand plan then is:
- recruit a star centre "that becomes the core of the team around which the spot up shooters and the PG's can revolve".
- spend more money and increase efforts on game night presentation
- spend more money on the roster
- recruit an ex player into management

Did I miss anything?

Well....aside from that, might I suggest maybe a change in the mentality and rationale of the Board.

At the player level, the mantra and the philosophy that always pervaded the club and been suggested to define how the team goes has been "To do whatever it takes to win". I can even remember T-shirts being printed with just such a sentiment.

Perhaps that same mindset needs to permeate the Board.

Without that...everything else tends to be "Fiddling while Rome burns" - to quote yet another hackneyed phrase.

Maybe you might share any clever ideas you have?

[scottgcau2]

OK, final draft of the plan for Crocs success is:
- recruit a star centre "that becomes the core of the team around which the spot up shooters and the PG's can revolve".
- spend more money and increase efforts on game night presentation
- spend more money on the roster
- recruit an ex player into management
- Make sure the board has the same "To do whatever it takes to win" attitude as the players and coaching staff.

I don't want to comment until I have heard all your ideas.

[Cussy]

Weren't we having this "Crocs is doomed!!" conversations last year, just before they stormed home to make the semis? Did they change the attitude of the board at that time? Did they hire an ex-player last December? Did they loosen the purse strings that little bit more to ensure John Rillie could hit 300 threes against the Wildcats?

There is one constant in any Crocs thread here - the same couple of people constantly whinge about the team which makes you wonder why they claim to be supporters in the first place.

[cantremeber]

Weren't we having this "Crocs is doomed!!" conversations last year, just before they stormed home to make the semis? Did they change the attitude of the board at that time? Did they hire an ex-player last December? Did they loosen the purse strings that little bit more to ensure John Rillie could hit 300 threes against the Wildcats?

There is one constant in any Crocs thread here - the same couple of people constantly whinge about the team which makes you wonder why they claim to be supporters in the first place.

Cussy - that last comment is a nonsense

How can what we do or dont do/say here on an internet forum have any bearing whatsoever on the outcome being measured - that of why the Crocs havent done what most expected of them to date.

BTW...I wouldn't exactly describe myself as a "supporter" either but that hardly is the measure on whether I should or shouldnt post

Scotty - I would also suggest that the NBL needs to take a good long hard look at itself and maybe even wind back some of its decisions regarding what is or isnt allowed on the game night.

Whilst it means little to whether the Crocs win the thing, it might make a difference to the product that is being sold. Even in the face of an "under-performing" team - if the spectacle was still fun, exciting, diverse, entertaining and inclusive of the crowd (above and beyond the court performance) then maybe - the #;s wouldnt be falling as bad. Then...even in the face of no championship, the arguement of viability could be raised as a valid alternative.

Bottom line - if nothing is done to address the falling revenue and crowd #'s then the viability of the team will be at risk with or without a championship ring on the mantle

BTW - I got lots of other ideas. Not all are aimed at getting a better on court result though. Most would have to do with re-engaging with the city and with the people who, behind the scenes, were the heart and soul of the organisation.

I mean ask yourself where are the vast vast majority of those incredibly passionate, committed and almost maniacal fans/supporters from the days of Stonehenge and The Phantom?

[paul]

CR, important to remember the distinction between previous seasons, when player spending was law of the jungle stuff, and this year (and presumably going forward) where the salary cap is far more tightly controlled with threats of massive fines and expulsion.

Realistically the Crocs can challenge for a title within their current formula now, but as you and I have both mentioned, they need a better frontcourt so they aren’t as reliant on their deadly but inconsistent three point shooters.

[scottgcau2]

- recruit a star centre "that becomes the core of the team around which the spot up shooters and the PG's can revolve".
I've just had a look at a list of all PF/C imports (some now naturalised) that have graced the courts of the NBL over the past 3-4 years. Out of the 22 players, only 7 are still playing, 10 have been widely panned as "duds", about 9 have been "serviceable" (I am including Roberts) but not exactly stars, and a grand total of 3 of them (2 current players, 1 priced out of our league) are the kinds of players that every team wants to recruit (none are centres). That's about a 13.6% chance that a new PF/C import will turn out to be a keeper. Crocs thought they had 1 in Larry Abney (not that I'd have agreed) but he was poached by a team who spent up big and got nothing for their troubles.

Even when you add australian players there's just not that many options - Adam Ballinger or Matt Knight would be probably the best "known quantity" players they could hope to get. Then you could probably add Khazzouh, Petrie, and Rychart maybe as other "serviceable" options. Who knows whether they did chase any of these guys, or how hard the chased them? We do know that they picked up Hoare who was a perrennial 6th man candidate before this year, and Rolan Roberts who would be quite decent if he could keep his fouls under control. It's clear to me that they have at least seen that there's a problem there and tried to fix it.

- spend more money and increase efforts on game night presentation
- spend more money on the roster
They can spend but if it's the league who's restricting the game night stuff then what can they do?
They can spend but if the right players aren't available then should they just spend it anyway? How many teams have spent up big and won the championship? How many teams have done it and failed? How many have tried and died? I would think the smart way to approach it would be to do just as they are doing - staying at a high (playoff) level and then each offseason see what you can do with what's available to improve.

- recruit an ex player into management
- Make sure the board has the same "To do whatever it takes to win" attitude as the players and coaching staff.
Whether the board has this attitude or not (possible helped by the ex-player?) - what does it achieve exactly? Is this just to make them agree to spend up and try to buy the championship? Or do the players take their lead from the board? I would suggest that a coaching staff and playing group with the "do everything for a win" attitude coupled with an administration that has a "do everything (that we can afford) for a win" attitude is probably the best combo you could get. Looks to me like they might already have this.

[cantremeber]

Whether the board has this attitude or not (possible helped by the ex-player?) - what does it achieve exactly? Is this just to make them agree to spend up and try to buy the championship? Or do the players take their lead from the board? I would suggest that a coaching staff and playing group with the "do everything for a win" attitude coupled with an administration that has a "do everything (that we can afford) for a win" attitude is probably the best combo you could get. Looks to me like they might already have this.

Appreciate yor post

The trouble with the scenario as you describe it in the last para is the status quo and yet...the #s are sliding.

What then if the #'s reach the critical # where the viability starts to be an issue?

[mattic]

Oh wow now heres someone who clearly just get their jollies out of trying to pick apart peoples posts when they cant find a decent reply to the content.
Wow thats really clever you are so smart. Is this your reply because you cant find the words to actually continue the conversation?

So does that mean you dont disagree with what I am saying?
Why dont you just take the message in the spirit it was intended instead of trying to make yourself look like a nerd!

You asked me, for reasons unknown and by which you came solely as a result of your own internal (un)reasoning, if I thought that everyone who had won a championship had cheated.

I answered, simply, "No."

You were dismissed because the level of arse-wittedness needed to arrive at that silly point, when there was nothing in my comments that could have even set you on the path to same, was such that to engage you in rational debate would be futile. Your capacity for such is non-existant and this is further demonstrated by your post above.

My issue is not that I cannot find the words (I have any number of Janet & John books from which I could construct a reply simple enough for you to grasp) but simply that I do not have the inclination to engage in the tedium of talking to someone as irrational as you.

[mattic]

I personally go for the game and the game alone, couldnt care less about anything else. I want to see our team be successful on the court nothing else! Making it consistantly into the final 4 after 18 years doesnt cut it anymore for me.

So dont talk to me about being selfish, we both go to the games for different reasons and we both have different views.

No, you're (note this word, you don't seem to have encountered it before) not selfish, you're shallow.

I find it amusing when I come across people like you. Your seemingly ravenous desire to win might be seen as admirable, but in it we find that as long as there is a win, you don't care how it is achieved.

The ability to kid yourself that a victory achieved outside the rules is one to be proud of is where the true admiration comes in. If only I could cheat my way through life and feel a real sense of achievement at the same time! Sadly I do not posses your shallowness of feeling or weakness of character and must condemn myself to playing fair and only winning some of the time.

You must be a hoot during Monopoly. None of your friends lets you be Banker, right?

[scottgcau2]

Appreciate yor post

The trouble with the scenario as you describe it in the last para is the status quo and yet...the #s are sliding.

What then if the #'s reach the critical # where the viability starts to be an issue?

- What if the #'s sliding has something to do with the Crocs having a losing record at home? What happens when they start winning again at home (surely they are capable given their road record)?
- What if the Townsville crowd is now so used to seeing Homicide play that they are no longer impressed with the freaky moves that he pulls off?
- What if it's a league wide issue where perhaps only having 7 other teams to play takes away some of the motivation for fans to get to every game?
- What if sponsors just believed the hype about the league being dead and decided they would prefer not to go down with the ship? Will they come back when the new newNBL is announced for next year?
- What if some fans don't come because they think they've lost some value with the shorter 10 min quarters?
- What if people are just more careful with their money after the "financial crisis" and aren't spending as much on entertainment?
- What if people are just getting fatter and lazier every year and can't be bothered leaving the house any more when they can be just as entertained at home?

There are plenty of possible explanations for why numbers may be slipping. You may be surprised to discover that many of them are not under the control of the Crocs management.

[curious]

Difficult to sell all your boxes when for a long time the NBL may not have gone ahead at all.
Normally they take about 4 months to sell them all.
Not 2 months or less that was available to them.

[cantremeber]

- What if the #'s sliding has something to do with the Crocs having a losing record at home? What happens when they start winning again at home (surely they are capable given their road record)?
- What if the Townsville crowd is now so used to seeing Homicide play that they are no longer impressed with the freaky moves that he pulls off?
- What if it's a league wide issue where perhaps only having 7 other teams to play takes away some of the motivation for fans to get to every game?
- What if sponsors just believed the hype about the league being dead and decided they would prefer not to go down with the ship? Will they come back when the new newNBL is announced for next year?
- What if some fans don't come because they think they've lost some value with the shorter 10 min quarters?
- What if people are just more careful with their money after the "financial crisis" and aren't spending as much on entertainment?
- What if people are just getting fatter and lazier every year and can't be bothered leaving the house any more when they can be just as entertained at home?

There are plenty of possible explanations for why numbers may be slipping. You may be surprised to discover that many of them are not under the control of the Crocs management.

And hence my comments a few posts ago that perhaps there is a "fundamental weakness to the BB model here in Oz given the distances involved, the expenses associated, the demand of players for a suitable income, the draw of other markets on the talent, the competition that exists in the modern world and the economic situation that we all face"

Now add to that the points listed above and if it were me, as a potential investor - the last place I'd wanna park my brass now would be an NBL franchise. UNLESS I was one who had the money, didn't mind spending the money, didn't care that the return received didn't make sense, didn't care about the risks associated but just wanted the result!!!

Maybe that is the future of the game...a steady progression of "Deep pockets" who get in and get out

Or maybe the NBL just continues to wither on the vine. Time will be the measure, I guess

PS...just a thought re your first point regarding the #'s associated with the Crocs doing better at home

The slide was on last year and unless my memory fails me, didn't the Croc's have a really strong and enviable home record last year? Might have been the year before - I forget. I thought they'd won almost all their home games and yet......

[scottgcau2]

So you admit that even though you are calling for change, there actually may be no change that will have the effect that you're after? There are well known reasons for not implementing your suggestions (money restrictions) and only a "maybe it'll work" to support them. Sounds like a no brainer to me, especially when it's extremely likely that there's at least 1 alternative in between the "championship + great crowd numbers and sponsorship" and "teh Crocs are doomed!!!1!11" scenarios you have painted for us.

[cantremeber]

So you admit that even though you are calling for change, there actually may be no change that will have the effect that you're after? There are well known reasons for not implementing your suggestions (money restrictions) and only a "maybe it'll work" to support them. Sounds like a no brainer to me, especially when it's extremely likely that there's at least 1 alternative in between the "championship + great crowd numbers and sponsorship" and "teh Crocs are doomed!!!1!11" scenarios you have painted for us.

Maybe you're right. Maybe I'm right? Who knows.........

But as I like to say.. Three kinds of people in the world. Those that make things happen. Those that watch things happen. And those that wonder what the f#$ck just happened.

Your way seems to be somewhere between 2 & 3

[scottgcau2]

My way is number 1. But before acting, you must first understand what the problem is, what your options are for action, and what the consequences are likely to be.

You however seem to be doing a bit of all 3 as you are seeing things, reacting with "what the f#$ck just happened?", and then quickly proceeding to panic and call for all kinds of measures that probably aren't really necessary or have a high likelihood of making the situation worse than it already is. Then again, crying 'teh Crocs is DOOMED!!!1!11" to whoever will listen isn't really taking action to make things happen is it?

[cantremeber]

My way is number 1. But before acting, you must first understand what the problem is, what your options are for action, and what the consequences are likely to be.

You however seem to be doing a bit of all 3 as you are seeing things, reacting with "what the f#$ck just happened?", and then quickly proceeding to panic and call for all kinds of measures that probably aren't really necessary or have a high likelihood of making the situation worse than it already is. Then again, crying 'teh Crocs is DOOMED!!!1!11" to whoever will listen isn't really taking action to make things happen is it?

Scotty...you're hell-bent on painting me as someone panicking and crying "The Crocs are doomed".

Your'e wrong. I am saying though that something is crook and unless it arrested, it may well be they are doomed. In modern parlance, its called being proactive

The corporate dollar is down.
The crowd thru the door is down - big time.
Revenue is down I'd imagine big time
Sentiment in the community is or has turned

All of this lends itself to a momentum of sorts. And one you ignore at your peril.

I'm suggesting "more of the same" just aint gonna hack it.

Now if that to you sounds like panicking...so be it

Nothing in what I've suggested in terms of a "plan" is far-fetched, outta left field or really all that irresponsible.

The Crocs might be doomed but not at the moment. Lets hope not - for Townsville's sake.

[scottgcau2]

Scotty...you're hell-bent on painting me as someone panicing and crying "The Crocs are doomed".

Your wrong. I am saying though that something is crook and unless it arrested it may well be they are doomed
Sorry. There's an important distinction between "the Crocs ARE doomed" and "the Crocs are currently heading towards being doomed".

[mattic]

UNLESS I was one who had the money, didn't mind spending the money, didn't care that the return received didn't make sense, didn't care about the risks associated but just wanted the result!!!

I would not want a Championship on those terms. If one has to cheat, the "victory" is hollow and worthless, like the Bullet's Championship.

Maybe that is the future of the game...a steady progression of "Deep pockets" who get in and get out

Nothing in what I've suggested...is ...really all that irresponsible.

Ask John O'Brien how that went for him. Ask the Taipans fans how that went for them.

[cantremeber]

I would not want a Championship on those terms. If one has to cheat, the "victory" is hollow and worthless, like the Bullet's Championship.

Ask John O'Brien how that went for him. Ask the Taipans fans how that went for them.

You may be right.

But I keep coming back to the status quo and the sheer reality of the present situation

We are, in fact, doing it "by the book", doing it your way and still...the crowd #'s and revenue #'s are surely leading to an non-viable position.

Maybe thats the BB reality of the modern NBL that is unavoidable and none really wants to admit.

[crocintaipanterritory]

Hasn't this turned into an intersesting post ! Some saying " Doesn't matter - throw in large bags of cash = CHAMPIONSHIP. And other's blaming the board, coach, players etc. Who cares, the crocs are fine, are going to stay, and yes I was there from day one watching rain man and bladesy getting towelled by other teams. Didn't care, still supported them, win, lose or draw. Those who whine about no championship, so what...., go support something else.

[cantremeber]

Hasn't this turned into an intersesting post ! Some saying " Doesn't matter - throw in large bags of cash = CHAMPIONSHIP. And other's blaming the board, coach, players etc. Who cares, the crocs are fine, are going to stay, and yes I was there from day one watching rain man and bladesy getting towelled by other teams. Didn't care, still supported them, win, lose or draw. Those who whine about no championship, so what...., go support something else.

Mate...its refreshing to see this blind loyalty and passion for your team

In the end though, my friend you will be roadkill. Run over by time, reality and events as they grind over the top of you.

And all the while...you'll be shaking your head wondering..."How did this all come to pass????"

Enjoy it while you can

[crocintaipanterritory]

Mate...its refreshing to see this blind loyalty and passion for your team

In the end though, my friend you will be roadkill. Run over by time, reality and events as they grind over the top of you.

And all the while...you'll be shaking your head wondering..."How did this all come to pass????"

Enjoy it while you can

You must have one of those crystal balls on special from target LOL!

[imported_comsec]

You must have one of those crystal balls on special from target LOL!

Whether he has a crystal ball from Target or Crazy Clark Numbers are falling that's all you need to know.

[cantremeber]

You must have one of those crystal balls on special from target LOL!

I know you're close to the action.

So....tell us if you can - what is the break-even #....re attendance vs operating expenses?

I had heard the # in previous years was 3500. This, of course, may not still be the case with a reduced # of home games. There are savings at the cap level but one would think that would suffice.

And what pray tell will happen (if and) when that # is breached?

[crocintaipanterritory]

i know you're close to the action.

So....tell us if you can - what is the break-even #....re attendance vs operating expenses?

I had heard the # in previous years was 3500. This, of course, may not still be the case with a reduced # of home games. There are savings at the cap level but one would think that would suffice.

And what pray tell will happen (if and) when that # is breached?

yes your correct I close, but my source say loose lips sinks ships, and unfortunately its
confidential, sorry my friend !

[mattic]

Mate...its refreshing to see this blind loyalty and passion for your team

Mate...its refreshing to see this blind loyalty and passion for your mate.

[DDFan]

I'm with crocintaipanterritory in the belief that the game night needs to be fun, & that it doesn't have to be expensive. Unfortunately, the NBL's been hell-bent on screwing that over with their retarded PC entertainment restrictions. Wouldn't it better to have the spectators all laughing along with the playing of "3 Blind Mice", than have streams of abusive language & taunts aimed at the refs?
On the winning thing, it's a crap life you have, if your only bragging rights come from your team winning a title. In my world, basketball's the ultimate in sporting entertaining, win or lose. Even in heavy losses, I've relished in highlights from the game.

[mattic]

He's a BB Fan that DDFan.

[cairns]

Ask John O'Brien how that went for him. Ask the Taipans fans how that went for them.
Nowdays the Taipans are a re-born community focused entity :p

[crocintaipanterritory]

I'm with crocintaipanterritory in the belief that the game night needs to be fun, & that it doesn't have to be expensive. Unfortunately, the NBL's been hell-bent on screwing that over with their retarded PC entertainment restrictions. Wouldn't it better to have the spectators all laughing along with the playing of "3 Blind Mice", than have streams of abusive language & taunts aimed at the refs?
On the winning thing, it's a crap life you have, if your only bragging rights come from your team winning a title. In my world, basketball's the ultimate in sporting entertaining, win or lose. Even in heavy losses, I've relished in highlights from the game.

yes my friend, you are so right.

[crocintaipanterritory]

Nowdays the Taipans are a re-born community focused entity :p

yes, and that's wonderful, kudo's to you, and I'm happy your back ( we need the rivalry) but your past was tainted with Mr O brien opening his checkbook ...

[scottgcau2]

You may be right.

But I keep coming back to the status quo and the sheer reality of the present situation

We are, in fact, doing it "by the book", doing it your way and still...the crowd #'s and revenue #'s are surely leading to an non-viable position.

Maybe thats the BB reality of the modern NBL that is unavoidable and none really wants to admit.
Mate when I was saving for a house a few years ago and for every $1 I put away the prices would rise $2 I was advised by plenty of people that I should just buy something, no matter how crap it was because the prices would just keep going up and I would be doomed to rent forever. Well I didn't panic and instead of a 2 bedroom shack held together with duct tape, I have exactly what I set out to get.

I guess it's not likely that basketball will all of a sudden become poplular again and KRudd will dump a shitload of extra funding on Basketball Australia, but the point is that you can only really do all the right things that are under your control. If the Crocs somehow go under while putting together a competitive playoff team every year under a responsible budget then what chance is there for the NBL to survive to play in anyway?

[cantremeber]

Mate when I was saving for a house a few years ago and for every $1 I put away the prices would rise $2 I was advised by plenty of people that I should just buy something, no matter how crap it was because the prices would just keep going up and I would be doomed to rent forever. Well I didn't panic and instead of a 2 bedroom shack held together with duct tape, I have exactly what I set out to get.

I guess it's not likely that basketball will all of a sudden become poplular again and KRudd will dump a shitload of extra funding on Basketball Australia, but the point is that you can only really do all the right things that are under your control. If the Crocs somehow go under while putting together a competitive playoff team every year under a responsible budget then what chance is there for the NBL to survive to play in anyway?

Fair points.

Now....I'll ask you as I've put forward quite a few ideas that might or might not prove useful.

What do you think the Crocs should do other than proceed in much the same manner as they have been?

Any ideas that might turn the #'s around?

Same ? to you CITC - what do you suggest? I mean your philosophy seems to be be that it aint broke. If so you probably have little to suggest

But if the wheels are starting to come off...what other plan/strategy/idea would you suggest?

[paul]

Well I personally think a bit of a winning streak (particularly at home) will bring some crowds back to a certain extent. In terms of getting back to the sell-out every week stage they prob will have to win a championship or go mighty close.

But with the way BA are running things now, it is far too risky to try and buy a championship, so the Crocs should keep on the same course and someone should mention to Gleeson he needs a frontcourt! Championships are now there for the taking for clubs who build their programs well, assuming BA continues down the current course.

But if the league gets a better tv deal and a major sponsor next year, that will put the Crocs in a better financial position again as they wont have to cover nearly as many costs just to play in the comp, and their sponsorship packages will be worth more, especially if the economy continues to recover (touch wood).

Averaging crowds around 4000 and being around the break even mark is a pretty good 'bad' situation to be in, and there is plenty of upside for this club if the league continues to slowly improve.

[Cussy]

Well I personally think a bit of a winning streak (particularly at home) will bring some crowds back

That's pretty much the solution. Each year, there is a "Crocs are doomed!!" discussion when they start losing a few games but the people that instigate those discussions disappear when they put a winning streak together. That is, until they find something else to criticise them for no real reason apart from some bad blood between them and the club.

The Crocs are competitive almost every year. I think other clubs have learnt that they are never a team to be considered easy-beats, no matter what their roster is like. Of course no team is an easybeat any more but there is something about the Crocs that you just know they can (and will) turn it around soon.

[cantremeber]

I asked but no one answered and a search failed to enlighten me so I'll ask again.

Didn't the Croc's enjoy a really good home record last year (or was it the year before)?

The reason I ask is... if this is what is held up to be the thing that turns things around - why... if there was a great home record...did the #'s fall?

TIA.

[crocintaipanterritory]

Fair points.

Now....I'll ask you as I've put forward quite a few ideas that might or might not prove useful.

What do you think the Crocs should do other than proceed in much the same manner as they have been?

Any ideas that might turn the #'s around?

Same ? to you CITC - what do you suggest? I mean your philosophy seems to be be that it aint broke. If so you probably have little to suggest

But if the wheels are starting to come off...what other plan/strategy/idea would you suggest?

its not my place to suggest anything, as i am not on the board.

[cairns]

yes, and that's wonderful, kudo's to you, and I'm happy your back ( we need the rivalry) but your past was tainted with Mr O brien opening his checkbook ...
Yep i thought so Townsville Crocs fans would've been heart-broken had we not re-entered the league:p
I guess the Taipans had a lesson learned after the demise of Mr O'brien and its now good to be community conscious as well as openly accountable. Wollongong has also adopted a similar kind of model.

[scottgcau2]

What do you think the Crocs should do other than proceed in much the same manner as they have been?
Well see, I'm smart enough to know how much I don't know. You can't come up with a plan to turn it all around if you don't even know for sure if there's a problem in the first place. Sure, falling attendances is never a good thing, but I can see the signs that the Crocs are basically going about things in a financially responsible manner, which is pretty much the bottom line when it comes to team sustainability.

Didn't the Croc's enjoy a really good home record last year (or was it the year before)?

The reason I ask is... if this is what is held up to be the thing that turns things around - why... if there was a great home record...did the #'s fall?
They went 12-3 at home last year.

From memory, there was a long shooting slump from pretty much all their long range bombers during the first half or so of the season which contributed to a bit of an ordinary overall record until they pulled together to win 7 of their last 9 games. Rosell Ellis wasn't the player he used to be, and neither was John Rillie for most of the season. I know I didn't want to watch them up until the end of the season - perhaps the home court fans were feeling the same?

[DDFan]

I asked but no one answered and a search failed to enlighten me so I'll ask again.

Didn't the Croc's enjoy a really good home record last year (or was it the year before)?

The reason I ask is... if this is what is held up to be the thing that turns things around - why... if there was a great home record...did the #'s fall?

TIA.OK ****remeber, I'll sow you a seed of thought. Two 36er management levels ago, our attendances were way down (av 4,500 & no global financial crisis at the time). I asked our head honchos if they had a plan to turn things around, & their response was, that when we establish a winning culture at home, the crowds would come. FFS, we'd won 8, then 9 games in succession & they were clinging onto the same dream.
The 36ers were spending handsomely at the time, got results on the table & yet numbers were down. That is an accurate recall of our history as a club, & shoots down your theories of success.
The real question is, have the Crocs disrespected their long-term fans by shortchanging them on existing incentives? That was definitely the mistake that 36er management made at the time & they did nothing about it. Result, more lost fans. They spent the money, but lost sight of the business.
I'll give the manlove to scottgcau2 this time & back his experience on not panicking. We were in a similar situation with our housing situation in 1975. Inflation was out of control, supplies were scarce & we went with a builder that was conservative & had an established stable history. There was a brick shortage at the wrong time for us, but the builder demanded supply & got it. The whole building process went to plan & we are still in that extremely practical home. It'll never make it to a magazine spread, but everyone without exception feels relaxed & extremely comfortable with our compromises. Our next accommodation option, is a nursing home, that's out of our hands & I'm not looking forward to it.
Equate that to what the Crocs have done & I believe that we've followed the same successful course. I wouldn't swap my existence with anyone & you guys need to take in the long-term benefits of what you've been handed.
Sorry for the rant.

Correction:

No, I'm not sorry for the rant.

Also, didn't the Crocs pursue Schensch pre-season? I wouldn't put that down to being lousy. After all, it was only the back injury that held him back from his NBA dream, prior to that, he would've demanded big money.

[TOID]

I would not want a Championship on those terms. If one has to cheat, the "victory" is hollow and worthless, like the Bullet's Championship.



Ask John O'Brien how that went for him. Ask the Taipans fans how that went for them.

I do think that perhaps the crocs have circumvented the salry cap on at least one occassion. as I feel most teams have. Just degrees of cheating that are set by how much cash your ownership group will spend.

[cantremeber]

I do think that perhaps the crocs have circumvented the salry cap on at least one occassion. as I feel most teams have. Just degrees of cheating that are set by how much cash your ownership group will spend.

Ooopppsss...maybe letting a snarling cat outta da bag. Right, of course, but some thing dont get to be aired.

[JimT]

No, you're (note this word, you don't seem to have encountered it before) not selfish, you're shallow.

I find it amusing when I come across people like you. Your seemingly ravenous desire to win might be seen as admirable, but in it we find that as long as there is a win, you don't care how it is achieved.

The ability to kid yourself that a victory achieved outside the rules is one to be proud of is where the true admiration comes in. If only I could cheat my way through life and feel a real sense of achievement at the same time! Sadly I do not posses your shallowness of feeling or weakness of character and must condemn myself to playing fair and only winning some of the time.

You must be a hoot during Monopoly. None of your friends lets you be Banker, right?
Oh mate you are such a dick!
When did I ever say go outside the rules???? I am a business owner and understand that they need to remain viable so I never suggested they go out and spend a stack of money to buy a team. Pretty dumb of you for someone who makes out to be intelligent!
You must be a fat bastard that sits in a corporate box sipping on Chardoney just having a chuckle about how funny the croc is and perving up the skirts of the cheer leaders. What part of sport do you actually enjoy? Your lack of passion to see them win clearly highlights you dont give a shit really?

[Cussy]

What business do you own, Jim? Croud Control?

[GordonG]

Your lack of passion to see them win clearly highlights you dont give a shit really?

People with a 'lack of passion' don't drive 400km to Cairns to watch their team play, huh? Must be a new definition of 'don't give a shit'...

[mattic]

Oh mate you are such a dick!
When did I ever say go outside the rules????
Right about here (the emphases are my own):
I personally go for the game and the game alone, couldnt care less about anything else. I want to see our team be successful on the court nothing else!
So, excluding everything else, including, logically, playing by the rules.

I am a business owner and understand that they need to remain viable so I never suggested they go out and spend a stack of money to buy a team. Pretty dumb of you for someone who makes out to be intelligent!
You must be a fat bastard that sits in a corporate box sipping on Chardoney just having a chuckle about how funny the croc is and perving up the skirts of the cheer leaders. What part of sport do you actually enjoy?
I don't drink Chardoney, or even Chardonnay.
Your lack of passion to see them win clearly highlights you dont give a shit really?
Don't mistake composure for a lack of passion.

[mattic]

People with a 'lack of passion' don't drive 400km to Cairns to watch their team play, huh? Must be a new definition of 'don't give a shit'...

...on a Wednesday. Then fly to the Gold Coast to watch 'em the next game on Friday. :-)

[crocintaipanterritory]

Oh mate you are such a dick!
When did I ever say go outside the rules???? I am a business owner and understand that they need to remain viable so I never suggested they go out and spend a stack of money to buy a team. Pretty dumb of you for someone who makes out to be intelligent!
You must be a fat bastard that sits in a corporate box sipping on Chardoney just having a chuckle about how funny the croc is and perving up the skirts of the cheer leaders. What part of sport do you actually enjoy? Your lack of passion to see them win clearly highlights you dont give a shit really?

The croc is a very, very, close friend of mine and DOES not look up cheer leaders skirts. I find your statement rather OFFENSIVE, please retract that silly remark thank you....... mattic and i travel extensively around to watch the crocs, ( couldn't agree more with you gordon and thanks to those die hards who travel from cairns to watch the taipans play us) I would love to know what your business is, so i could tell everyone what a lovely slanderer you are....

[Derek]

The croc is a very, very, close friend of mine and DOES not look up cheer leaders skirts. I find your statement rather OFFENSIVE....

I think you misread his post. He was accusing mattic of that, not the Croc.

DN

[crocintaipanterritory]

I think you misread his post. He was accusing mattic of that, not the Croc.

DN

ooops, my apologies Jim T, I read it wrong, thanks derek.

[Cussy]

The croc is a very, very, close friend of mine and DOES not look up cheer leaders skirts. I find your statement rather OFFENSIVE, please retract that silly remark thank you....... mattic and i travel extensively around to watch the crocs, ( couldn't agree more with you gordon and thanks to those die hards who travel from cairns to watch the taipans play us) I would love to know what your business is, so i could tell everyone what a lovely slanderer you are....

Yes, inform all his clientele that he accused a sports mascot of peeking up a skirt. That will ruin him for sure.

[crocintaipanterritory]

Yes, inform all his clientele that he accused a sports mascot of peeking up a skirt. That will ruin him for sure.

i misread it.... and apologised....

[mattic]

Nah, Cussy wasn't having a go at you, he was executing the gag. That's what he does. Enjoy. You've been Cussyed :-)

[cantremeber]

Nah, Cussy wasn't having a go at you, he was executing the gag. That's what he does. Enjoy. You've been Cussyed :-)

So given all the critiques and rebuttals put forward by yourself, the one you havent refuted is the one regarding you peeking up the skirts of cheerleaders?

How could you?!?!?!

[DDFan]

So given all the critiques and rebuttals put forward by yourself, the one you havent refuted is the one regarding you peeking up the skirts of cheerleaders?

How could you?!?!?!Where's the problem? I mean, cheerleader routines have traditionally been choreographed & run with masses of nicker shows & leg splays. Is that now obscene? Should they wear neck to knees, & sit on chairs with legs crossed during the game?

[JimT]

:confused:The croc is a very, very, close friend of mine and DOES not look up cheer leaders skirts. I find your statement rather OFFENSIVE, please retract that silly remark thank you....... mattic and i travel extensively around to watch the crocs, ( couldn't agree more with you gordon and thanks to those die hards who travel from cairns to watch the taipans play us) I would love to know what your business is, so i could tell everyone what a lovely slanderer you are....

Thanks Derek, The Croc is also a friend of mine who I actually think is a very decent bloke and does a good job especially with the limited funds he gets. If you read my remark carefully (not that it was even directed at you so I dont even know what business it is of yours) but it says nothing about the Croc but about Mattic and what he does at games!!!! So before you go about trying to sling your own opinions everywhere make sure you read the post properly!

[mattic]

So given all the critiques and rebuttals put forward by yourself, the one you havent refuted is the one regarding you peeking up the skirts of cheerleaders?

How could you?!?!?!

One doesn't need to peek. The new dresses (which are crap, by the way) are quite short enough to obviate any need for peeking.

[Cussy]

:So before you go about trying to sling your own opinions everywhere make sure you read the post properly.

Didn't you do, um, exactly the same thing when you entered this thread?

[Cussy]

One doesn't need to peek. The new dresses (which are crap, by the way) are quite short enough to obviate any need for peeking.

Oh, so not only do you peek at their minges, you are checking out the cross-stithing and general fashion design of the outfits? You don't go to games to drink Shardoney and eat pies do you lol

[cantremeber]

One doesn't need to peek. The new dresses (which are crap, by the way) are quite short enough to obviate any need for peeking.

For mine I said to the missus that maybe....crowds could peak (or is that peek...) again if the girls went commando.

I mean I know alot of blokes that might....regardless of the game on ;)

[crocintaipanterritory]

:confused:

Thanks Derek, The Croc is also a friend of mine who I actually think is a very decent bloke and does a good job especially with the limited funds he gets. If you read my remark carefully (not that it was even directed at you so I dont even know what business it is of yours) but it says nothing about the Croc but about Mattic and what he does at games!!!! So before you go about trying to sling your own opinions everywhere make sure you read the post properly!

will do

[DDFan]

Oh, so not only do you peek at their minges, you are checking out the cross-stithing and general fashion design of the outfits? You don't go to games to drink Shardoney and eat pies do you lolI've never eaten a pie, Nora Minge at any NBL game, I am that proper. However, I do think that the leg-line elastics could be eased ever so slightly, to save the ladies from the threat of blood restriction to their lower limbs & as a bonus, caPtivate a more diverse audience.
I think this business of over protectionism has gone way too far. Take this on, the youngest & most innocent of game attendees have a choice between the real deal & bottled milk, & there are ads in the media trying to promote breast-feeding. Here's a chance for the NBL to work with the Government, promote the natural, exPose the breast, put on a show, & it shouldn't offend anybody. Could take the heat off of the leg-line sweatshoP overlockers too.
I know there are water restrictions, but a Jimmy "WET" T comp, might bring some exPosure to the game.