2010 Season Timings

[Loz]

This out from BA -

"MEDIA ALERT

12 October 2009

BASKETBALL AUSTRALIA CEO TO ANNOUNCE SEASON REVIEW OUTCOME

Basketball Australia Chief Executive Officer Larry Sengstock will tomorrow (Tuesday 13 October) announce the outcome of BA's comprehensive review of the timing of the National Basketball League and Women’s National Basketball League season timings at its corporate offices in Sydney.

As part of its on-going reform of basketball, BA has conducted an extensive review of the optimum positioning of the season to maximise commercial returns for the sport in the lead-up to the launch of the 2010 season.

Sengstock will brief media on the outcome of the review, and reveal the future positioning in the calendar of the NBL and WNBL seasons. The BA chief will also provide an update on the progress of the introduction of a new national development league which forms part of the national pathway to the NBL and WNBL.

Sengstock will be available for media one-on-one interviews following the briefing.

Media wishing to attend should contact Marc Howard at the Basketball Australia offices on the number below to confirm their participation. Parking is available on site by prior arrangement."

This will obviously have a flow on affect to the State Leagues so I'll be waiting to see what is released. Hopefully it means BA will start consulting with the State Leagues because it hasn't happened yet.

[rjd]

Interesting timing. Announcement pushed forward in response to this (http://thebballscoop.weebly.com/1/post/2009/10/basketball-australia-votes-in-favour-of-a-switch-of-season-during-quarterly-meeting.html) recent article? ;)

[Alex_Traitor]

The season timing is perfect as it is. AFL in the Winter, NBL straight after. Crowds are up this season, are they not? Why do they have to go fixing everything that isn't broken?

[WilloWildWaves]

Just from my point of view, I like the season where it is as well. I would say I am a big suporter and member of both the Wildcats and Lynx and enjoy attending them both, I am also involved in the SBL over hear in Perth ( march to july/sep bout) and would hate to have to miss attending Cats/Lynx games.

[gangsta boo]

I'm another supporter of the timetable - fits in very neatly for me with the NRL season. But I think there is a change coming .....

[gangsta boo]

Well I was wrong - its staying the same

[Alex_Traitor]

Link?

[Loz]

http://www.basketball.net.au/index.php?id=302&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=938&tx_ttnews[backPid]=1&cHash=437477e374

[Alex_Traitor]

Oh happy days! :D

[SB.1]

I think the only change we need is to set it a week back (post AFL GF). But maybe that is broadcast related as FOX do not cover the GF?

[Old Hack]

BA CEO Larry Sengstock said (http://www.basketball.net.au/index.php?id=302&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=938&tx_ttnews[backPid]=1&cHash=437477e374)the clear recommendation of the review was that the current September – March window provides the best opportunity for basketball to maximise commercial return, extend media coverage and really entrench Basketball as a spectator sport in the summer period.

“We undertook an exhaustive analysis of the current season positioning, including going head-to-head with the winter football codes and also a July to mid-December window. Our steadfast focus is the commercialisation of the sport and ultimately the compelling economics of building a strong broadcast partnership and embracing the partnership opportunities available which makes summer the best season to revitalise basketball’s position,” said Sengstock.

“We already have an established market position in summer and our games complement the broadcast window available to sports. This is a key factor as we look to change our commercial model to attract broadcast rights, similar to the football codes. Basketball is a great product for TV and we want to give the game every chance to succeed and grow in a season we can make our own.”

“There are some who would try to turn back the clock assuming that a move back to winter would guarantee the success of the 1980’s and ‘90’s. The reality is that we are now in a far more complex and competitive sporting marketplace. We are focused on moving forward, not looking back and the timing of the season needs to drive the best commercial outcome for the sport, with flow on benefits to our grass roots participation,” Sengstock added.

Basically Foxtel would not be interested in broadcasting NBL games in Winter when it has AFL & NRL as it's prime sports coverage.

Sengstock also announced today that its Competitions Commission had been directed by the Board to develop a concept for an underpinning competition for both the NBL and WNBL.

Is this the concept which could see a significant change to SEABL by expanding it to include more teams from NSW & QLD and adding teams from SA and possibly reducing the VIC concentration.

It seems the BA review produced little change from the outsider point of view despite promising significant improvements.

[Alex_Traitor]

Yes, I'm as stoked as the next punter that we're staying in the Summer, but there's no need for two threads on the same subject.

[Derek]

Yes, I'm as stoked as the next punter that we're staying in the Summer, but there's no need for two threads on the same subject.

Threads have now been merged.

DN

[Melb Wildcat]

Great news. Means I can attend both SEABL and NBL games with no real basketball off-season. Awesome.

[Skindog the Hawk]

The next step is the creation of this development league under the NBL. You've got to really question whether there would be any viable competition to the SEABL which currently exists, as it is undoubtedly the premier second-tier competition in Australia.

The best case scenario would be for SEABL to be officially recognised as this, with their season to continue in its' current slot (allowing for talent to play in the SEABL and then in the NBL), with assistance to several NSW teams and at least one more QLD side to enter into a newly-created Northern Conference. To keep the conference numbers even you'd probably need to add another VIC or SA team to either East or South. I've elected to pop them in the East in my example below...

North Conference Men:
"Brisbane"
QLD new team
Canberra
AIS
NSW new team 1
NSW new team 2
NSW new team 3

with the East becoming:
Knox
Kilsyth
Bendigo
Dandenong
Ballarat
Albury/Wodonga (moved from South)
VIC/SA new team 1

and the South becoming:
Frankston
Hobart
Geelong
Sandringham
Mt Gambier
NW Tasmania
Nunawading

You then have 3 pools of 7 teams - play your own pool twice (12 games) and each other pool once (14 games) for a 26-game season. Finals are top 2 teams from each pool with 2 wildcards, making a top 8.

SD.

[Melb Wildcat]

I believe 2 BIGV (Victorian based ABA) teams have already applied to play in the SEABL next season. Definately would be the 2nd best competition in Australia, even though it is already by daylight.

[Skindog the Hawk]

Without additional representation from other areas of the country though (and yes, I admit I've left WA, NT and North QLD out due to travel costs), the SEABL will continue to be seen as a Victorian-centric competition, which I'll bet would run counter to BA's desire to see a national second-tier league...

SD.

[Melb Wildcat]

Yeah but in many ways the SEABL represents Australia more than the current NBL with teams from SA, VIC, ACT, NSW, Tasmania and QLD. Im just not sure there are many other teams prepared to play in the SEABL as it generally costs a fair bit to put a team in that league. In saying that I do not know too much about Waratah or QLD leagues and the $ of the associations there. A Newcastle team in SEABL would be something Id like for example.

[Loz]

I believe 2 BIGV (Victorian based ABA) teams have already applied to play in the SEABL next season. Definately would be the 2nd best competition in Australia, even though it is already by daylight.

Not that I know of. All of our clubs are committed to us so let's squash this crap now. And even if there were some clandestine shenanigans going on again this year I can tell you that no club informed us at the 30 June deadline that they were looking to move.

As far as the "Development League" goes we all look forward to finding out what it is. I don't believe there will be any further expansion in Victoria and it is more likely that there will over time be less teams. How that plays out will be anyones guess.

At this stage there are more questions than answers. Presumably BA want to run it under some form of Commission and if it is a re-badged SEABL that means the SEABL clubs will need to give up some of the ownership they now have in their League. If it's supposed to be a pathway then that also needs to be clearly defined, will there be some form of promotion/relegation from the state leagues, or it is simply the ABA reborn in a different conference structure? When will it run? Where will the referees be drawn from? What opportunities will there be for other Associations to aspire to play in the new League? If it's a development league will there be restricted player provisions - e.g. age restrictions and no imports? What are the costs? Is there equalisation? I can go on but let's see what else the rest of you would like to know.

[Rebecca]

It will be very interesting to see what happens in the future for the lower level leagues. The gap between the overall procudt of the SEABL and lets take Big V as the example is huge. The BIg V championship series was one sided and once the Tigers got there full squad together it was over.

The quality of teams top to bottom in the SEABL is far greater than anywhere else. Yes, other leagues have some good teams ( Qld-Cairns, Big V-Tigers) but its their depth across the breadth of the league that is the difference.

Loz you comments relating to all the arbritary things i thnk will all work themselves out easily. I see the "Second tier league" as being a feeder league and not a development league hence i doubt there will be any restrictions on players other than the current which apply to the NBL (two import maximum). I doubt there will be any age restrictions etc and if anything the time % clause for eligibility will probably stay. One of the other reasons i think the NBL didnt move is currently a lot of the lower level players ( bench players 8 through 12) suppliment their income by playing in the lower leagues in the off season. I think you will find the NBL players Union lobbied strongly for the seasons to remain the same.

Your comment about Equalisation i think is obvious. A league such as this could only survive with equalisation otherwise some teams will have massive costs compared to others. I would predict that BA will put some money in and similar to Crazy John being in SEABL, a league with such a footprint wouldnt find it hard to find a National company to sponsor it. Plus, in a league such as SEABL, the more teams competing the less it costs to run a team as the equalisation cost decrease as more teams enter the competition.

I think things such as referees will be easy to source as currently all State referees associations are affilited with basketball Australia so i gather they will be guided by the counrties national body. Doubt that will cause any issues at all seeing the SEABL for example currently utilise referees in every state where they have teams.

I for one look forward to the prospects of having two levels of elite competition within Australian basketball which will hopefully create pathways for players, coaches, referees and administrators.

Bring it on i say.

[paul]

The problem I see with having a development league based on the current association structure is that it wont bridge the gap between NBL and SEABL nearly enough to be effective.

If it is a league where associations get promoted relegated from their state competitions, then there will be either some very good players not in the so-called second tier league (ie Harms and Gruber if Frankston have a bad season and don’t make it) or we will see the good second tier players being mercenaries and going to the clubs that do qualify to maximise their chances of getting an NBL contract.

I think to make it effective in terms of standard you need to make the tough decision and select a certain number of the bigger more successful associations to make up a 20-24 team national comp (2 or 3 conferences), so that the best players from outside the NBL and fringe NBL players can select one of those teams – making it a true second tier.

The problem with that, of course, is that you could alienate some clubs who do not get selected. At the end of the day though, they are left with the option of playing in their state comp or taking their ball and going home.

Tough picking just a handful of teams though. If it were a 24 team comp you could imagine maybe 2 TAS (in Lonny and Hobart), 3 SA (Mt Gambier, 2 in Adelaide), 6 QLD (Cairns, Townsville, Mackay, Rockhampton, Brisbane, Gold Coast), 5 NSW (Newcastle, Illawarra, Albury, 2 in Sydney), AIS, 7 VIC (Geelong, Ballarat, Bendigo, 5 in Melbourne – ??Knox, Kilsyth, Dandenong, Melbourne??).

Then of course, there is the factor of WA teams and a Darwin team, and whether it is cost effective to have them in the comp. Interesting.

[Loz]

All good points Paul and Rebecca but at the moment it's a bit like the Donald Rumsfeld "Known Knowns" speech.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RpSv3HjpEw

I have real concerns about the flow on affects at Junior level where the big Associations become more of a magnet for the better players. Some will say so what, why shouldn't they move, but it weakens the smaller Associations and denies opportunities to local players at the big Associations. And I know this happens now, but I would like to think that BA recognise this as something that needs to be addressed ot at least acknowledge that it will happen. If it is something they want to encourage then it provides less opportunities for the smaller Associations to get better.

[paul]

You are spot on Loz. It would create a situation where the strong clubs are like TAC Cup teams in aussie rules, and the others drift off into less significance.

My belief is that the association level senior comps need to be brought back from the pseudo national status and connected much more closely with their junior rep teams. Then a new comp needs to be brought in as either the second tier, or the elite level, with the NBL as the second tier.

[Old Hack]

What I'd like to see next year is the NBL kick off the week after the NRL Grand Final and have 4-5 games on the first Saturday Night as a Super Saturday NBL mostly in the Capitial City Venues but thats depending on getting a Brisbane or Sydney team in.

Foxtel could have a double header telecast going from say a Melbourne home game then straight onto a Perth home game. Highlights of the other games could be provided between breaks.

The timing for the start of the season is crucial to getting maximum publicity & news but nearly impossible while AFL & NRL Grand Finals are still being played.

[Skindog the Hawk]

Paul - interesting to see you nominate six Queensland teams, but only 5 NSW sides and you forget the Canberra Gunners!

As I've stated previously, involving QLD will make life prohibitively expensive for this competition, however the inclusion of at least one or two Brisbane/SE Queensland sides and a group of 3-4 NSW sides will make a "Northern Conference" sufficiently cost-effective for it all to fly. (so to speak)

At the hub of it all is the basketball powerhouse that is Victoria. Currently there are 10 Victorian teams (including Albury/Wodonga) and I don't see any reason to decrease that number. Keep in mind that number also excludes Mildura, who were in the SEABL (with the exception of 2008).

The main attraction of maintaining SEABL as the secondary league is the facts that it is already established, it is already strong and it is already inclusive. There is no need to re-invent the wheel here (witness the recent decision for the NBL to remain in summer), but rather to augment and enlarge it.

Add in a Wollongong-based side, two or three Sydney sides and a Central Coast side (because you won't get Newcastle "defecting" away from BNSW at the moment ;)) and get your two or three Brisbane/SEQ sides and guess what, you've got feeders for the NBL in those areas! Six QLD sides would simply be overkill, and including Cairns, Townsville, Mackay & Rockhampton would simply blow travel costs completely out of the water. As it is, the NSW & QLD sides will be up against it when they have to pay for 4 road trips - either 1 Tasmanian road trip (substitute a Vic road trip if you don't get the Hobart/NWT double, seeing as though you'd only play East & South once, not twice) & 3 x Melbournes or 1 Mt Gambier & 3 x Melbournes...plus you'd also have to do at least 1, if not 2 Canberra trips. Bottom line...not cheap.

Unfortunately at the end of the day, that is what it will all come down to - money. It costs the best part of say, $10,000 to place a mens and a womens team in the Waratah ABA. If you want to pay players, then add whatever obligatory amount you think you need to spend.

Go to SEABL and you've got to find a budget of at least $50,000 per annum, and more if you're planning on employing players and what not. Admittedly you can get better bang-for-buck if you make these players do school development etc (getting income through attracting kids into your junior competition etc), however I can't think of too many NSW basketball associations (or Queensland ones, for that matter) who have $50,000 spare in their annual budget to make this one fly.

Unfortunately without any prompting (financial or otherwise) from BA, it will be a very brave board and/or GM that explains to their members what they're planning on doing at their next AGM and why...and most will (in that case) take the easy option and continue playing it safe in their local league... :?

SD.

[The Glove]

So the NBL didn’t change its season, league set up (apart from teams not re-entering) or even changed their name like they mooted.

Wow, so nothing is different.

I'm sure that the game is heading in the right direction then!! :confused:

[Alex_Traitor]

So the NBL didn’t change its season, league set up (apart from teams not re-entering) or even changed their name like they mooted.

Wow, so nothing is different.

I'm sure that the game is heading in the right direction then!! :confused:

Wow, you're angry coz the NBL didn't change from Summer to Winter just for the sake of making a change? Did you even read why they're staying in Summer or try and develop your own conclusion as to which season is better, taking into account TV coverage, competing sports etc?

Stop whining little girl.

[The Glove]

Wow, you're angry coz the NBL didn't change from Summer to Winter just for the sake of making a change? Did you even read why they're staying in Summer or try and develop your own conclusion as to which season is better, taking into account TV coverage, competing sports etc?

Stop whining little girl.

Oh my god, Wow did you even read my post......

Where exactly did I say that summer was a bad idea, where did you draw your odd conclusions from?

My post was more in jest at the NBL you idiot. The NBL was going through a radical change this last off season. They were going to re-launch a new basketball competition in Australia, like the A League did with soccer.

What did we get, what changes have happened to the NBL for this new and dynamic competition?

Um .... Lets see... oh yeah, the defending champions the South Dragons no longer exist. Ok, carry on. I’m sure though we'll have an even better competition this year.

My post was a swipe at the NBL for promising radical reform, and actually after the dust (actually was their any dust) has settled, they haven't done a thing. What has changed?

[Cussy]

Why would you point out name changes and timing changes as the things they have supposedly failed on? Whether you realise it or not, you are saying they needed to make changes for the sake of it, just to prove they are doing something.

[The Glove]

No I am not saying that...

The NBL in its old state was dying a painful death.

What has now changed to make it viable?? That’s the point I’m trying to make. What has the NBL done?

Reform was proposed, but they left everything to same way. After much though and consultation, they didn’t make any changes when changes obviously needed to be made.

So IMO, the NBL is still going to be dying a slow, painful death as nothing has changed.

[Alex_Traitor]

Oh my god, Wow did you even read my post......

Where exactly did I say that summer was a bad idea, where did you draw your odd conclusions from?

So the NBL didn’t change its season, league set up (apart from teams not re-entering) or even changed their name like they mooted.

Wow, so nothing is different.

:confused:

[Cussy]

But the timing of the season and the name of the league are not the issues that the league needs to worry about, so why even mention them?

What are the obvious changes that needed to be made to those things?

[The Glove]

Well then Im deeply concerned when the NBL have press confrences to announce their findings on these non issues.


Maybe they should spend some times addressing real issues then.

[The Glove]

So the NBL didn’t change its season, league set up (apart from teams not re-entering) or even changed their name like they mooted.

Wow, so nothing is different.

:confused:

read the entire post.

This is directed at the NBL who said they were going to launch a new and improved NBL like the A League.

Nothing has changed so far, how is this different? What has the NBL done to improve the competition?

They say we needed change but were is this change ?

[Cussy]

Well then Im deeply concerned when the NBL have press confrences to announce their findings on these non issues.


Maybe they should spend some times addressing real issues then.

Perhaps you should pass on some of your obvious corporate expertise and assist them to "make some chnages ans stuff".

[Alex_Traitor]

Stop saying changes in there.

[paul]

The fact that the average spend on players is down about $500K is a massive step forward.

[The Glove]

Perhaps you should pass on some of your obvious corporate expertise and assist them to "make some chnages ans stuff".

oh no, a typing joke ... you really a witty man.